Webcast: Service Animals in Housing and Air Travel. Presenters: Betsy Darling, Allyssa D. Wheaton-Rodriguez, Stacy Toomey, Ed and Toni Eames. >> RACHEL: Hello, everybody. And welcome to the third of what will be four webcasts on assistance or service animals. The series has been so popular that we have expanded it. Please visit our archives and you can view the first two webcasts of the series. One of those was Service Animals and the Law, Which Animals Do the ADA and State Law Recognize. The second was Questions and Answers About Service Animals and the Law. Please plan to join us on Wednesday, June 16th, when our final webcast in the service animals series will be held and that one will be service animals and transportation covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act. So that will be taxis, buses, trains, paratransit and more. Marilyn Golden will be presenting that day, so I guarantee you don't want to miss it. My name is Rachel Kosoy. I am with the Disability Law Resource Project, your sponsor for today's event. I will be moderating the webcast and voicing your questions to the presenters. Before we get started, I want to remind you about sending us questions. In order to submit a question, you can click the submit question button, which is at the bottom of your RealOne Player screen, or you can simply address one to us at webcast@ilru.org. So please send those now or at any point during the presentation, and I will pose your questions to the presenters as they pause for questions. Lastly, if anybody has technical difficulties today, please give us a call. Our number is (713)520-0232. And you can hit zero and ask for assistance. Okay, today's webcast will address service animals and housing and in air travel. The webcast will take place in two parts. The first part will deal solely with housing. We have two attorney advisors with the department of housing and urban development or HUD who will present and answer questions for this portion. And the people we have with us are Betsy Darling and Allyssa Wheaton-Rodriguez, and I have to tell you that I recently had the privilege to attend a training of theirs, and they know their stuff. So send your questions in if you've got them. The second part of the webcast will address service animals in air travel. Our presenter about air travel and the Air Carrier Access Act will be Stacy Toomey, and we're very pleased to have Stacy with us today. She has over 18 years experience in the airline industry. She's worked with New York Air and Continental Airlines where she is currently, and her current duties include designing, developing and delivering electronic training products for airport personnel. Her focus is really on addressing the needs of Continental customers traveling with disabilities and setting policies and procedures relating to the Air Carrier Access Act. She's been a member of Continental's disability task force since its inception and has coordinated travel for the last eight years for the PDA wheelchair gang and she knows her stuff, too. Now, during both parts of the webcast, we will also be joined by Ed and Toni Eames who'll pose common questions and offer the always sought after tips for people who use assistance animals. Both Ed and Toni use guide dogs. Ed is the president and Toni serves on the board of the International Association of Assistance Dog Partners. This is a cross-disability consumer advocacy organization which includes members who use guide, hearing and service dogs. The Eames have just published a book about assistance dogs. It's entitled Partners in Independence, a Success Story of Dogs and the Disabled. Please refer to their bio for more information about their work, and when the archive of today's presentation is put up, their bio will include a link to more information about their book. Okay, I think we're ready now to get into the meat of the webcast. We're going to start with housing and Betsy and Allyssa, I'll turn it over to you. >> ALLYSSA: This is Allyssa, and first we decided to discuss basically where the allowance for assistance animals come into housing. It starts with the Fair Housing Act. The Fair Housing Act allows for assistance animals in its provision for reasonable accommodations. Basically, a landlord may not refuse -- a landlord or any other housing provider, may not refuse to make reasonable accommodation in rules, policies, practices or services if necessary for an individual with disabilities to use the housing. What that applies to is almost all forms of housing, the specific term is dwelling, but it's basically all forms of housing whether for sale or rent. There are some exceptions, but only a few and if a house is for sale or rent using advertising, any exceptions that may apply no longer apply. The same goes for real estate brokers, if a housing provider uses a real estate broker, then the exceptions no longer apply. The exceptions to the housing rules would be if a housing provider only owns four or less units and the landlord lives in one of the units, or if the housing provider does not own more than three single-family houses, then they are not susceptible -- they don't have to follow the Fair Housing Act. Then we have to determine whether an individual has a disability as defined within the Fair Housing Act. Disability is defined as any person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities; or if that person has a record of such an impairment, or is regarded as having an impairment. Some examples of impairment which may result in disability could be visual, speech or hearing impairments, cerebral palsy, autism, epilepsy, muscular dystrophy, multiple sclerosis, cancer, heart disease, diabetes, H. I. V. infection or drug addiction other than addiction caused by current illegal use of a controlled substance. Most of the time when we're dealing with disabilities having to do with support animals or assistance animals, the disability is either a physical one, such as a visual impairment or a hearing impairment, or if it's a mental disability we see those often and then the animal -- the assistance animal would be in the form of an emotional support animal. When you ask for a reasonable -- when you want to have an assistance animal, say, in an apartment or in another housing situation, you have to ask or request the housing provider to make a reasonable accommodation in their policy, if there is a no pet policy which is what we're talking about. If the landlord or housing provider allows for animals in the apartment or in the house, then there is really not an issue. The issue arises when the housing provider has a no pets policy or if they require a deposit for an animal. So the first step would be to ask the housing provider for a reasonable accommodation based on the individual's disability. First the individual or the proof that's required for a reasonable accommodation is first you must prove you have a disability, then you have to prove that the respondent, which would be the housing provider, knew or should have known that you had a disability. So if you ask them in written form or a reasonable accommodation and tell them about your disability, then they will know, you know, that you have a disability and need this reasonable accommodation. And then you must show that the accommodation of the disability is necessary to afford you an equal opportunity to use and enjoy the housing. Sometimes there is a question -- usually the questions that arise are whether it's necessary -- whether the support animal or assistance animal is necessary to provide the individual with disabilities the equal use or enjoyment of the housing. What you must show at a minimum is that the desired accommodation, the support animal, will affirmatively ameliorate the effects of the disability. For example, a common use of assistance animals would be a guide dog for visually impaired individuals, and in that case then you would need to show that the guide dog aids the individual with disabilities, that the dog helps them with certain activities that they could not do otherwise. There is also often a case that arises is whether a housing provider must -- or may require a deposit for an assistance animal. HUD's policy is that an assistance animal is the same as any other auxiliary aid such as a wheelchair or a scooter or any other aid. So there should not be any deposit charged, and any deposit that's normally charged for pets should be waived because the support or assistance animal is not considered a pet. The case law on this issue is not as clear-cut as HUD's policy, but hopefully in the future there will be more cases brought to make precedent. And I think that concludes our presentation, but we do have some questions that we would like to answer. >> BETSY: Okay, these are some of the questions that were E-mailed in. This is Betsy Darling speaking. Sorry I did not say that at the beginning. There was a question in regards -- it was actually from an individual living in Florida, and this individual had gone to an apartment. It's either they went there or they telephoned the apartment. They did not specify. And they said that they were going to have a support animal that they would need to live with them because of their disability. They also went ahead and told what their disability is to the apartment complex. The leasing agent said that she would have to check with the manager to find out about the type of service animals that they would allow or would not allow, and she overheard this agent asking the manager and the manager answered that they would only take a blind dog. That that's the only type of service animal that would be allowed. This individual did file a complaint with HUD and they -- basically because we work for HUD and there is an open complaint with HUD in another region, we can't talk specifically about her case, but just in general in regards to the situation someone -- if a medical provider requested for someone to have a support animal, also called a companion animal, that would be allowed. So apparently this apartment complex wasn't totally advised on how to handle their situation. This person also wanted to know another general question -- would they need some kind of a certification of their mental status to prove a landlord that they benefit directly from the animal's companionship and stewardship. They would just need a doctor's note or some kind of a medical provider's note. It doesn't have to be a doctor. It can be some other medical provider note saying that this person needs the animal and that they would benefit their disability -- that they would benefit from this type of animal. So they don't need a certification. This person was also concerned about the type of animal that they would get. Let's say an apartment complex -- let's say someone wanted a dog for their service animal but the person may feel that a dog would be too hard for them to take care of, but let's say the apartment complex wanted them to have a dog rather than a cat. Well, it's not really up to the apartment necessarily to decide. It's up to the person and their medical provider. So I think that addresses some of the concerns, but of course this person has a complaint so they will have to work with the office that's handling their complaint to get details in regards to their case. There is another question someone had asked. They are out of Pennsylvania. They wanted to know -- they said in an ad in the newspaper that in the section renting and houses for sale, there is a note stating under the federal Fair Housing Act and the Pennsylvania human relations act that it is unlawful to discriminate in the sale, rent, et cetera, on the basis of the following factors. It lists race, color, but then it also lists the handling or training of support or guide animals. And this person asking the question wants to know, does that mean if they are raising a service puppy, can they reside in the apartment that has a no pets policy. And honestly, we don't -- that's not covered under the laws that we work with under the federal Fair Housing Act, and I would just recommend calling the newspaper to ask them where they got that information, where that came from, and you know why they're doing that because we haven't seen that scenario before and it's something that's not covered under our federal act. >> ALLYSSA: And this is Allyssa and I might add that that might be part of the Pennsylvania human relations act. States are allowed to -- or they do pass legislation dealing with fair housing laws and they can be even more restrictive than the federal laws. >> RACHEL: This is Rachel. So just to recap because I actually have gotten a couple of other questions in on the same topic, are you saying that under the Fair Housing Act that tenants are not allowed to have puppies that have not yet been trained? >> ALLYSSA: No, we're not saying that, but at the same time the animal, the service animal, you have to show that it is benefiting your disability. So if a puppy is not -- for example, if you're -- if you have a mental disability and your disability will be helped by having a puppy or, you know, a dog of any age or cat or bird or whatever to help with, say, depression or you know some attachment or anxiety disorder. I'm not a medical professional, but I know that cases come up about these types of disorders. Then having the puppy there, and again this is if a medical provider says it's necessary, then that's okay, but if you have a puppy and it's not -- it doesn't necessarily have to be trained, but it has to be somehow aiding you in your disability. It doesn't have to be professionally trained, but for example f you need a guide dog, if you're visually impaired and you need a guide dog, a puppy is not going to be able to -- a puppy that is not trained to do the things that a normal guide dog does is not going to be able to provide you with the benefits that, you know, a trained guide dog would be able to provide. So in that scenario, a puppy probably wouldn't be the best assistance animal to have, but it depends on -- as far as training the animal in a house if you're just asking do landlords have to allow you to train an animal for later -- you know, later use, you know, we haven't had a case that came up about that. So we would have to look at the facts in that case. There is -- you know, I just don't know. I can't answer that since there is no case law on it. >> RACHEL: Okay, so at this point if we have somebody with that question, should they then get in touch with their regional HUD office? >> ALLYSSA: That would be fine. I guess what happens is if there is not a complaint made, it's sort of like any law that goes before a court. A court can't deal with a scenario unless there is an actual case or controversy. It's the same sort of thing with our agency. We can't really just make policy on something that hasn't necessarily happened before -- for us. I'm not saying that all of head quarters or anything like that, but since we've never seen a case like that, it's hard for us to say, okay, in every case an individual would be allowed to train a puppy because we don't have regulations on allowing time for training a puppy. So you could -- I would first go to your housing provider and request reasonable accommodation. I'm not sure how long it takes to train a puppy to do whatever this individual needs the dog for or the puppy for; but if their housing provider would not allow it and they feel -- well, it would be because of their disability. Then I would say they would need to file a complaint with HUD, either through the regional office or if there is a field office or if they have a state equivalent agency. >> RACHEL: Okay. Let's move on to other questions because I'm watching clock and I know we've got a lot to fit in here. Were there more E-mail questions that you guys had already or are you ready for some new ones? >> BETSY: We're ready for some new ones. A think Allyssa covered the other two E-mail questions so I think we're ready. >> RACHEL: Okay, so Ed and Toni, why don't you guys pose a question or two, and then I have some additional questions that have come in I'd like to pose. >> ED: Okay, let me go first with a couple of quick ones I think that will be easy to answer. Are there any sized animals and/or species of animals that would not fall under your definition of an assistance animal? >> BETSY: Well, I haven't seen anything in case law that would really limit types of animals; but in -- there could be city ordinances or other laws in the locality that may limit the type of animal that could live in a residence or such like that. So there may be other limitations. I mean, we have seen cases with all sorts of unusual animals. So that would be variable I would say. >> TONI: This is Toni. Under what circumstances can a landlord or manager ask you to remove a service animal or support animal? >> ALLYSSA: Well, for health and safety reasons -- I mean, I can't think of -- if you're not -- for example, there was a case where the individual was not cleaning up after their dog and that poses a health problem for the community. And a housing provider can evict an individual or ask an individual to remove the animal for that reason. >> BETSY: Also -- this is Betsy Darling. Let's say someone's support animal is a dog that is ferocious to other individuals and let's say the animal repeatedly gets loose and let's say the support animal is biting people or causing disturbances, then those would be reasons where someone could try to have that animal removed. >> ED: This is Ed again, and again very quick answers on these I think are possible. Would it be considered a reasonable accommodation to request management to provide a relief area, let's say for dogs. My main concern. And secondly, related to that, if such a relief area is set up, does management have the right to demand that only that relief area be used? That's come up in a number of cases we've been involved with. >> ALLYSSA: When you say relief area -- I mean, I think in the cases that we've seen, we're talking about excrement as opposed to urine. I mean urine fine -- what I'm saying is -- sorry, a little disturbing -- what I'm saying is that I think it would be reasonable to ask for a reasonable accommodation from the landlord or housing provider and ask for a relief area for the dog, the support animal. Now, I think it would be also reasonable for the housing provider to require that the individual with disabilities clean up after the animal. And in that case we're talking about excrement as opposed to urine because you can't really clean up urine. Now, if the animal goes -- I mean, I don't understand if the animal goes somewhere else, are you saying would the landlord be able to evict the individual or what are you asking? >> TONI: This is Toni. Let's assume that there is a relief area, a patch of grass or a patch of dirt or whatever in a large complex, and you're visiting a friend for the day who lives at the very end furthest a way from you in the complex. And the dog has to go. You take the dog out. You clean up, but the dog is not -- is not relieving in the designated area. Can the landlord demand that the dog only go in the area that has been designated as the relief area? >> ALLYSSA: That's hard to say. If you're cleaning up after the dog, I don't see -- I don't know. I don't see it being a health -- if it's like a one time deal as opposed to continuously using the wrong area? I mean, I don't know. I don't see that there is that big of a problem, but again we haven't seen a case come up like that. >> ED: Okay, here is a case very specifically and you may be able to comment quickly. A friend of ours live -- both are guide dog partners. They live in a huge complex and the management is insisting that they take their guide dogs outside the gates, outside the whole complex area to relieve their dogs, despite the fact that there are many areas within the complex and other nongrass areas that could be used and their issue is is that -- could a reasonable accommodation be made to let them use nearby areas rather than going out a considerable distance from where their housing unit is located? >> BETSY: Well, this is Betsy Darling. When any reasonable accommodation is asked for, if the landlord refuses to accommodate, it has to be because of an undue burden or administrative burden or some type of financial burden. So if -- you know, you're saying there is enough green area in the complex. Well, it sounds like maybe it wouldn't be too much of a burden, but the complex might argue, well, we don't have -- you're saying there is a lot of green area, and they would probably come back and say, well, there isn't a lot of green area. You know, so it just depends on how the two-part advertise argue it and how it comes out. But if something is very burdensome for the complex and causes problems -- like, let's say they didn't have a lot of green area and let's say they did pick out a small area for dogs to go in, and let's say people started not wanting to rent there because of this area. Well, maybe then they could come back and say, oh, well, this little area has become a financial burden for us because people don't want to rent from us because of this little area that's close to the office and it's smelly or something. You know, so it just depends is the answer. >> ALLYSSA: and I guess that's something that I didn't cover at the beginning. This is Allyssa. As long as the requested accommodation -- and this goes back to what Betsy was saying -- as long as the requested accommodation does not cause a financial or administrative burden for the landlord or if it doesn't -- as long as it doesn't fundamentally alter the nature of the housing, the landlord should provide the accommodation. So Betsy is right in that if your friends requested that, you know, if they were away from this patch of grass, whatever, and the dog needed to be able to go or actually -- sorry -- if they needed an area closer to where they lived, then they can ask for that accommodation and the landlord would have to either grant it or would have to show that it's an undue financial burden or administrative burden on them. >> TONI: This is Toni. The landlord is claiming that the dog's urine would ruin the grass and turn the grass, you know, spotty and it would be unattractive. >> ALLYSSA: Well -- >> RACHEL: This is Rachel. If I could just jump in for a minute here. Actually this scenario has been real helpful in raising some issues. I think that we have to move on from the specific scenario because I'm getting a lot of other questions in and I know that our time on housing is moving by quickly. Is it okay with you guys if I move on to a couple of other questions here? >> TONI: I have one quick question. This is Toni. Since in housing the dog does not need to be trained for someone say with a psychiatric condition, what happens if that person is now moving to another facility either in another town or across town and wants to take the dog on public transportation to get there? >> ALLYSSA: Well, I don't know. We only deal with housing so the public transportation issue is totally separate and we don't have any regulations to that. >> RACHEL: Okay. This is Rachel. We actually are going to have our final webcast on assistance animals will be on June 16th and that one will focus on all the transportation that's not covered under the Air Carrier Access Act. So it will address that question specifically. Let me throw in a couple of other questions that are coming in. I'm going to paraphrase some because we are getting a lot of questions that overlap. Their issues overlap. There seems to be a lot of interest in -- is there a certain number of service animals allowed? It sounds like there are a number of situations in which people with disabilities are wanting three, four or even more animals? And, you know, there are some specific instances here, but some of the questions just really ask a pure numbers question. >> BETSY: This is Betsy Darling. I think that would relate again like to the area where the person is living. The federal law doesn't have -- doesn't specify those types of limitations, but local law could. There could be some type of city ordinance on animals, and I know those are related to pets and these are support animals. So still there could be some local -- local laws about the animals. >> ALLYSSA: and it goes back to what's reasonable and what is not reasonable and which of the animals -- if all of the animals are doing the same thing, then it's probably not reasonable to need all of the animals, three, four, or five, however many animals. So we have to look at it on a case-by-case basis and to look at that individual's disabilities and what that animal can do for that person. And if one animal can be trained to do all things, then there may not be a reason to have three animals doing one of each thing or, you know, one activity or helping in one activity. >> RACHEL: Okay, and it also sounds here -- one of the questions that came in suggests is there a certain number that might exceed what's considered reasonable? We have somebody who is in a two bedroom apartment who is wanting to bring in a fifth dog. >> ALLYSSA: Well, we don't have any case law on what -- there is no hard and fast rules. I mean, there is nothing in the regulations that state you can only have X. dog or X. pets or X. assistance animals. So there is no way to really answer that. >> RACHEL: Okay, so it sounds like it could go back to the analysis of what's considered reasonable. >> ALLYSSA: Exactly. >> RACHEL: Okay. All right two, more questions kind of along that line. What if somebody who uses -- who uses a service animal, the animal ages and is no longer able to provide that service, so a new animal is brought in. Is it okay for the tenant to keep the older dog? >> ALLYSSA: Well, if we're looking at the dog on solely a service providing basis, you know, from that standpoint -- I mean, unless we're looking at an emotional support animal, if that dog can no longer provide the services, then that's probably not a reasonable accommodation. >> RACHEL: Okay. So if there is -- there is a question in this same question about if a medical professional writes a note saying that separation from the older dog will cause undue anxiety or something like that, then is it -- is that sufficient to require the landlord to continue allowing that older dog to stay there? >> ALLYSSA: and I would say that first we would have to establish the disability. If the individual -- I mean, it can't be just an impairment. It has to be a disability which is an impairment of physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity. So it can't be just an anxiety disorder that, you know, you can take some medicine and it goes away and you have -- it doesn't substantially limit your life or a major life activity. So just getting to the point where it's a disability, that's your first question. If this individual, you know, had a service dog and their disability was, you know -- I don't know, a vision impairment and then they wanted to keep the dog and it was going to cause them anxiety -- unless that anxiety is part of a disability, then there is no -- the law doesn't cover that. >> RACHEL: Okay. All right, another question from a landlord. Can a landlord legally ask what specific training and tasks can a dog do to assist the person with the disability? >> BETSY: Well, I can work on that. This is Betsy Darling. Whatever the service or emotional support animal is doing for the individual, it has to be -- there has to be a next us between their disability and what the support animal is doing. As far as training or not being trained or certification, the person can individually train the animal. If it's an emotional support animal, it might just be a companion, there may not be any training. So the main thing is that the animal -- that there is a nexus between the disability and what the animal is doing for the person, but the certification or training certificate or any of that kind of thing is not something that they would have to show. >> ALLYSSA: This is Allyssa. As far as documentation, a landlord -- it depends on the case. If someone can -- some disabilities can be seen and some cannot. So if a landlord doesn't know that an individual is disabled, for example, if it's a mental disability, the landlord may require that a doctor's letter or some sort of documentation is provided saying that this individual has a mental disability and an emotional support animal is required. But if the landlord can see that someone has -- let's see -- a visual impairment, then there is no documentation required for that. Because you can see the nexus between someone with a visual impairment and needing a guide dog. >> RACHEL: Okay, so if it's not apparent what the disability is, can you just repeat what the legal questions are? It sounds like the questioners want to know is it legal that a landlord asks what your disability is and is it legal that the landlord ask you what are the tasks that the animal does? >> ALLYSSA: It's not legal to ask what the disability is. It is legal to ask what the dog or what the assistance animal will be providing to aid with the disability. I know that sounds a little confusing because it's like -- you don't necessarily have to know, okay, I have MS. You may just say I have a disability that impairs, you know, X. Y. and Z. and my doctor said I need a dog because this dog will help me with X. Y. and Z. in this way. So you don't have to provide -- it's not legal to ask exactly what the disability is and to get medical documentation on the disability, but it is legal to ask how this dog -- or how this is assistance animal is going to help the individual with disabilities. >> RACHEL: Okay, great. I'm going to throw in the last question here and then I know we need to move on to air travel. And just to let people know who are listening, if you have additional questions about housing, please E-mail them to us and we will respond to them individually. Okay, the last question has to do with college residence halls. Are they covered under the Fair Housing Act, and they want to know if -- let's say -- companion animals must be allowed as well as service animals? >> ALLYSSA: This is Allyssa. College dormitories are considered dwellings as long as the individual -- the college student has an intent to return to that residence or that dwelling. Usually I think in most all cases, dormitories are considered dwellings under the Fair Housing Act. And, yes, they are -- you know, they are covered by the Fair Housing Act. So any assistance animal, whether it's for emotional support or for a physical disability -- I say emotional support, emotional support for an individual with a disability, they would be covered by the act. So they would have to allow the dog -- I'm sorry -- the assistance animal. >> RACHEL: All right, great. Allyssa and Betsy, thank you so much. You've given us great information. I know there are more and more questions, but we will, again -- you know, the Disability Law Resource Project and in consultation with Betsy and Allyssa will answer questions individually by E-mail. So please send them in if you have them. And Betsy and Allyssa, thank you very much. We get these questions all the time and I know that there is a great need for the information you guys were able to provide today. >> BETSY: Thank you very much. >> RACHEL: Okay, we're now going to move on to air travel. And Stacy Toomey is going to take over now and begin with giving us a presentation about air travel and service animals. So Stacy, I'm turning it over to you. >> STACY: Thank you, Rachel. Hi, this is Stacy Toomey, and as Rachel said earlier, I'm with Continental Airlines. And I've been working with the regulations with the Air Carrier Access Act for about ten years now with Continental. And recently there have been many changes to the Air Carrier Access Act in regards to service animals in air travel. Some of the things that have happened that have caused these is more and more customers are actually traveling with service animals, and service animals today are doing a lot more for customers than they have in the past. In the past in the airline industry, it was always dogs. Dogs from the seeing eye for people with visual disabilities. Hearing dogs for customers that have hearing disabilities and customers that use wheelchairs. Well, since then, there are service animals for customers with epilepsy and now we have even more and more customers with emotional disabilities that travel with emotional support animals. To better help the airline in determining what was a service animal and how to provide transportation for that service animal as an accommodation for a disability, the Department of Transportation put out some new regulations about a year ago to help the airline better understand service animals and to determine what was a service animal and what was not a service animal. Some of these problems came along with the airlines because the U.S. DA changed allots of our rules for carrying pets. For years, the airlines -- a customer could come to the counter, check their pet and we would take your pet just like we would take your luggage. It would go in the cargo compartment of the aircraft and be returned. Because of the changes in -- from the government, we are no longer -- the airlines no longer take pets as checked luggage. It has to go through cargo. The only pets that the airlines do take now are those that are the size that will fit in a carry on kennel that can be placed underneath the seat of the customer's feet. What's happened now is a lot of customers come in now with their pets and say they are service animals. So I have friends that travel with their service animals that have gotten a little bit different attitude from employees at the airport just because there is more questions in regards to is this a service animal or is this not a service animal, especially when a customer has a hidden disability. Somebody comes in and they obviously have a visual disability or they're using a wheelchair and they have an animal with them. Airline employees will automatically assume without question that that is a service animal, even if the customer has not self-disclosed to us that they are travelling with a service animal or that they have a disability. When a customer comes in and it is a hidden disability, there are four steps that any airline employee will take in order to determine if an animal is a service animal. The first thing that we do is we teach the agents to look for any physical indicator on the animal. Does the animal have a harness, a vest, a cape, tags, a backpack, some of the harnesses that we're familiar with are the harnesses from the seeing eye -- they are stamped on the side that do say seeing eye. If an animal has any type of physical indicator, we will stop our examination right there and automatically that animal will be determined to be a service animal. If there are no physical indicators, we'll go to step two, and that is we will ask for credible, verbal assurance from the customer. The Department of Transportation has given us specific questions that we are allowed to ask, and then some that we're not. The first one that we're going to ask is, is this your pet? If the customer responds that it a service animal, but an agent is uncertain, there are follow-up questions that we can ask the customer. We will ask the customer what tasks or functions does the animal perform for you? Or what has the animal been trained to do for you? We cannot ask what your disability is. We can only ask how the animals provide the function for the disability. We can also ask would you describe how the animal performs this task or function for you? If the customer provides a reasonable explanation how the animal was trained or performs a function, we will accept that as credible, verbal assurance that that animal is a service animal, and it will be accepted into the cabin of the aircraft as a service animal. An example of this would be a customer who has epilepsy, they come to the airport with their animal. Obviously the animal may just be on a leash. The customer does not have any outward visible appearance that they do have a disability, so we may ask how does that animal perform a function for you. The customer responds that the animal alerts me to seizures. We will automatically just accept that animal on a take your word for it that that's what that is. If a customer cannot provide credible verbal assurance or if the animal has been described to us as an emotional support type of animal, we will require documentation. And it's not documentation that the animal has been trained. It is documentation for any type of emotional support, a comfort animal, an emotional support, a psychiatric service animal. We require documentation from the customer's treating physician stating that that animal is required and is part of that customer's treatment. And it does have to be from the customer's physician or their psychiatric -- and it must be on their letterhead and signed and it must be readable. That is the only time we will require documentation and it is only for emotional support animals. If an animal -- we cannot determine whether or not it is a service animal, the animal will be -- fall under our current pet policies, and for different airlines it's a little bit different. For Continental, it's through our cargo facility only unless it's of the size that will fit underneath the seat in a kennel. There are animals that have come to us that we will not take a service animal and that is any type of rodent, a reptile, a snake, a spider or a ferret. We cannot take those in a cabin of an aircraft for any reason because they do pose a direct threat to the health and safety of others and to the aircraft itself. But rabbits, dogs, cats, birds, monkeys, miniature horses, those we all take in cabins. The last step we would ask for is just observing the animal's behavior. If a service animal -- most service animals, most all are either trained at home or professionally to behave in public settings. If a service animal -- we've gotten through all three steps. We have documentation for an emotional support animal, and an animal starts growling or barking or jumping up on people or urinating and defecating in the airport, the gate lobby itself, on the jetway or in the aircraft itself, we can ask the customer to modify the animal's behavior. Give the customer time away from all the busyness that's going on in the airport to see if the animal can calm down so it can travel in cabin. Another example is if a dog is barking, the customer may want to place a muzzle on the dog to modify that behavior and then we would take the animal in cabin. However, if the animal's behavior cannot be modified, that animal is demonstrating to us that it has not successfully been trained to function as a service animal in public settings, and we will not accept it as a service animal, and it will only be accepted under current pet policy. Any time an animal is refused transportation, all airlines have what they call a CRO, which is a complaint resolution official. All airlines are required to have somebody, either on hand immediately for a customer or via telephone so that if an animal is going to be denied boarding, a CRO should be there. With Continental we require a CRO to complete a report that it sends immediately to our customer care department. If a customer has a question about how their service animal is being handled, as a customer, you do have the right to request the CRO to help you in your travel experience with your service animal if you're having some problems. If we're not going to take your service animal for one of the reasons that we are allowed to refuse transportation, if the animal is small enough, it can fit in the cabin, that's the first thing we are we will try to do is accept it as a pet in the cabin of the airport. If it does not meet the in cabin pet policy, then it has to be tendered through the live animal desk. Any time an animal is tendered through our live animal desk, which is our cargo department, there are health certificate requirements and documentation and there is also a fee. Service animals traveling in cabin do not require health certificates. There are no fees associated with it. However, that is domestic United States. Service animals going outside the U.S. or actually into Hawaii, there are some documentation requirements and I will cover those. If a qualified service animal does not fit with the customer, it's a very large dog and the dog takes up more room than what is in front of the customer's chair, basically when you purchase a ticket on a carrier, your service animal does not have to fit underneath the seat in front of you like your carry on luggage does. Your service animal can sit at your feet. However, if the animal over lapse into the main aisle of the aircraft, that is considered an emergency evacuation aisle and the animal cannot have a paw, a nose in that aisle. It has to remain at the area directly in front of your seat. If the animal is so large that it overflows into the seat next to you and takes up another customer's space, that animal can be denied boarding for the most part on any aircraft with any airline. The seat space that you have is going to be the same, whether it's in one aisle seat or it's a window seat or a middle seat anywhere in the aircraft except for the bulkhead seats. They do tend to have a little bit more room. However, they don't have the extra, you know, underneath the seat in front of them little space and a service animal can stretch out in. If that is the case, the animal does not fit with the customer, we will -- if your animal is a qualified service animal, we will give you a kennel free of charge. We will allow the animal to escort you on to the aircraft. We will take the animal, put them in a kennel. We will take them down to the aircraft and place them into the belly of the aircraft, and let the animal travel free of charge and provide the kennel free of charge. When the aircraft lands at the next city, the animal will be brought directly up to the customer on to the aircraft so the animal can escort the customer back off. The other option if an animal is too large, as a customer, you can purchase a second seat. So your animal would have the space in front of you and the seat next to you also. That is an option also. Any customers -- this has happened. We've had animals that are rodents and snakes, customers will come up and say it's their service animal. Even if a ferret is determined to be an emotional support and the customer has the proper documentation from the treating psychologist or psychiatrist, we still cannot take that animal because it is considered a rodent into the aircraft cabin. It does pose a direct threat to the health and safety of customers and to the aircraft itself. Any of those animals can only be accepted through a live animal desk, through what Continental calls their live animal desk. We can't even take it from you, put knit a kennel for you and place it in the belly of the aircraft. If the animal is unable to behave in the airport and its behavior is unable to be modified, we can deny transportation and have to file under current pet policy. And any animal that is determined not to be a service animal and must be tendered through the live animal desk will thus require documentation and that is the health certificates and everything else. Service animals into Hawaii -- Hawaii has -- does not actually have rabies, and they do have rabies quarantine in Hawaii. At this time, Hawaii does allow animals to -- service animals to travel in the cabin of the aircraft. However, it must meet all their exemption guidelines that they have for rabies, which it has to have the microchips, it has to have all the proper documentation on their rabies vaccinations. It has to have the serial numbers. And there is a lot of documentation that is required for a service animal in Hawaii. However, you can take a service animal into Hawaii. However, all the paperwork that must be completed and all the quarantine information -- the best way to do that is if you're going to be traveling to Hawaii, one thing that you need to remember is service animals or any animal can only go into Honolulu. That is the only airport that has a port entry for animals period. If a service animal or any animal goes into Maui, the animal will be confiscated from you and the animal will go into quarantine or can be confiscated immediately upon arrival. So any customers planning on traveling to anyplace in Hawaii, make sure you book your travel through at least your outbound from the United States into Hawaii must be through Honolulu. It's the only port of entry and you don't want to book a nonstop flight into Maui, have your service animal and have your service animal confiscated from you. So outbound from Hawaii back into the states, it's just like a domestic travel here in the U.S. You can take a service animal from Maui into the domestic U.S. without any certificates or paperwork that has to be completed. It's only from the U.S. into Hawaii itself. There was a lot of questions that I heard in regards to housing and that was basically service animals in training. We do accept service animals in training to travel in the cabin of an aircraft as a service animal. The only requirement for a service animal in training is that it is traveling with a handler or trainer and it has a letter stating that it is in training to assist somebody with a disability. That animal will be accepted for travel as a service animal. If a service animal is travelling with a customer that is not disabled, someone is taking your service animal from Point A to Point B for you, the service animal will not be accepted. It will only be accepted under the current pet policy. Someone can travel with more than one service animal. If you have -- are traveling with two dogs, one provides one service for you, and one provides another service for you, both service animals can travel with you. The only thing that you need to be aware of is that both animals must be able to fit in that same space in front of you. So if both service animals do not fit in that space in front of you at your feet, what we'll do is we will actually -- you can purchase another seat so that you have more room, or leave one service animal with you and we would give you a kennel for the second service animal or if it's a third one and take it -- check it down into the belly of the aircraft and immediately bring it back up to you upon arrival at your destination city. And that is done free of charge and the kennel would be provided free also. If a customer -- as a customer and you are traveling with your service animal and the customer that is seated next to you objects to your service animal, the customer with the objection is the customer that is moved. If they don't like cats or, you know, they say they have an allergy to a dog, we would actually not require you to move, we would require the customer that has the objection to move to another seat. If, for example, a flight is over sold and there is not another seat for that customer to sit, that customer has the choice of either taking their seat or getting off the airplane. Not quite sure about other carriers, but a lot of carriers do take search and rescue animals. Search and rescue animals that are going to disasters, we do take in cabin as service animals. That is the only other service animal that we take in cabin of an aircraft. Service animals that are trained for contraband are not accepted as service animals. The airlines only take service animals as an accommodation for a disability. And in the one case we do take search and rescue. Service animals traveling internationally -- at this time Continental is the only carrier that actually is allowed to take service animals or actually animals into the United Kingdom, your pets or a service animal. The United Kingdom actually has a lot of quarantine balls and their quarantine is six months long. There are new policies for pets traveling into the United Kingdom that they no longer have to go through the six-month quarantine period, however, there is along list of things that the service animals must go through in order to travel without being quarantined upon arrival into the United Kingdom. There are rabies shots. The animal must be microchiped. The United Kingdom does not take anything but an ISO, which is the international standard microchip. They do not take the tattooing, they only take that one microchip and that's it. I know here in Texas it is hard to get that microchip. And a lot of the microchips here in Texas itself do not have that. They require rabies shots six months out, additional check-ups that must be met 24 to 48 hours prior to traveling. Now, if a customer is traveling, for example, from one city and then connecting into another city where their main flight is, for example, I'm going from Corpus Christi, Texas, to Houston, Texas and then from Houston, Texas to London. Service animals at this time cannot travel in cabin to London. It's not that Continental does not want to take them, it's that the United Kingdom's laws do not allow us to have an animal on board the aircraft in the cabin of the aircraft. So you could travel with your service animal in the cabin of the aircraft from Corpus to Houston and then in Houston we would have somebody meet you at the gate that would check all your paperwork so that we know for sure your animal is not going to be taken in the United Kingdom or put into a six-month quarantine and all your paperwork is done for that animal that's required by them. We would allow the animal to escort you on to the aircraft. We would take the animal at that time. We would place it in a kennel and, again, if it's a qualified service animal, we would provide the kennel for you. We would check the animal and then upon arrival in the United Kingdom, the an animal cannot be brought into the aircraft. It has to be brought through the clearing facility and could take up to four hours to have your animal cleared. So when you're traveling into the United Kingdom, just be aware that there are additional rules that apply. They are not U.S. rules, they are rules by that government and it does require a lot of documentation. However, that is the current policy. In mid June, the United Kingdom is going to start allowing Continental to carry their service animals in the cabin of the aircraft. You'll still be met in Houston or Newark where we fly out of nonstop into London to check all the paperwork because all that paperwork still must be completed to make sure your animal meets all their guidelines, has the microchip and the rabies shot. The animal will be allowed the travel in cabin with you. Upon arrival in London, however, the animal cannot leave the cabin of the aircraft with you. The animal will be picked up by our clearing agent and the animal will be taken and have it cleared. And the option for you at that point would be -- you could take a taxi over to the clearing facility or you could wait at the airport and the animal will be brought back to you at the airport. And those rules should be changing sometime in June so that service animals no longer have to travel in the belly of the aircraft. They'll be able to travel in the cabin with you. There are certain animals that the United Kingdom does not take. So it's always really good to call ahead of time. You can't take a bunny rabbit as your service animal. Rabbits must go -- they fall under different guidelines within the United Kingdom. They have to have different documentation. So your rabbit that you have a letter for as an emotional support animal that we would take domestically, we would not be able to take it to the United Kingdom. France, for example, does not allow certain animals to leave the country once they are there. An American pit bull terrier, and American Staffordshire terrier, those animals cannot leave the country. So if your service animal is not that type of animal, you can go into France with it, but you can't leave France with it. Those are things to keep in mind when you're traveling. Even here in the United States, the U.S. carriers do not take pit bulls. We cannot check them for any reason. We will not accept them. Basically, U.S. carriers don't accept anything with the word pit bull in it. So even if it's an American pit bull terrier that has all the A. K. C. papers and we know the difference between a regular pit bull and that kind, it still will not be accepted. Internationally, right now you could travel into Germany with a service animal with no documentation whatsoever. You could get on the airplane for Continental it would be in Newark, and fly into Frankfurt and you do not require documentation for your service animal. However, all the rules into Europe are changing this summer in July, and you are going to be required to have a microchip or a tattoo. The United Kingdom is still only going to be the microchip, depending on the country, it will be a microchip or a tattoo and you are going to be required to have the health certificate information and all the rabies information and all those rules are changing this July. Any time you're traveling with a service animal internationally, the best bet is get all the information that you can from the airline and a lot of times we don't take that many service animals internationally. The first time we took our first service animal into Tel Aviv, the customer called us ahead of time and I actually just called the consulate to find out if they had any specific rules that we needed to follow besides our rules. Our rules are you have a service animal. It's a qualified service animal. We're going to let it on board the aircraft in the cabin as long as it meets all the guidelines. However, going in and out of other countries, those countries may have rules that we're going to have to follow also. Tel Aviv required a health certificate. Service animals out of Amsterdam basically require a letter that you need to carry around with you that says that this animal is a service animal and it's trained to do this and that's not that the airlines require it. It's the country itself requires it. So when you're there in the airport and you're going through security and everything else, you have a letter and they know why you have a service animal with you. Even if it's a visible disability, they still require some of this information. Basically that wraps up my presentation on service animals, and I'd love to hear from you in case you have any questions for me. >> RACHEL: Okay, great. Thank you. Stacy, you did such a good job that you answered the majority of the questions that came in already. I had one that came in that I'd like to ask and then I'll step back and let Ed and Toni have a conversation with you. >> STACY: Okay, great. >> RACHEL: and actually, Ed and Toni, you might have a response to this as well. The question is, are people who are going to travel with service animals required to let reservation staff know ahead of time that they will be traveling with the animal? >> STACY: No, you're not. Just like a customer making a reservation with a disability, you do not have to self-disclose. >> RACHEL: Okay. And I think also, Ed and Toni, as you guys jump in now, if you guys have some tips, too, as veteran travelers with your guide dogs, that would be real helpful. >> ED: Okay, this is Ed. And I'd like to start off and I think one phrase I heard in the presentation raised the issue that was very fundamental for the task force that initially worked on the new regulations that have been adopted by the Department of Transportation. We had in the task force specifically asked that the emotional support animal be distinguished from the service animal with a clear recognition that service animal documentation was not required. Whereas emotional support animal documentation could be required under the conditions that we described here. In the presentation I noticed a combination wherein deed documentation could be requested of somebody with either an emotional support animal or a psychiatric service animal or service animal or specifically people with psychiatric disabilities. And that's what we were trying to avoid because the service dog that works with a person with a psychiatric disability has been trained to provide particular services for that individual, and requesting documentation, even though it's a hidden disability, is something that we were trying to avoid. And the fact that in the presentation they were linked together makes me worried about that situation. >> STACY: You are absolutely right. The original task force did define service animal and emotional support animal separately. And it was very, very clear to us in the airline industry the difference between a service animal and an emotional support animal. However, when the Federal Register came out, they actually did not separate out the definition. They put everything under service animal -- they really never changed the definition at all. The definition is still the same it originally was when it was written in 1990 with DOT Part 382 and the whole implementation of the Air Carrier Access Act. The only thing that they did was gave the airlines the terms, these are emotional support type animals, and that was psychiatric service, comfort and emotional support. And to help us, we could require documentation for those type of animals since those type of animals travel with customers with hidden disabilities. We still on the documentation does not need to state -- and this is such a gray area because the letter has to come from the customer's treating psychiatrist or psychologist, but it doesn't have to state what your disability is. It just has to state how the animal helps you with that disability. So it's a tough situation, I know. Here at Continental, we have not run into any complaints within that area. Customers that have tried to travel with emotional support animals and were asked to provide us with documentation all ended up being customers with pets because they would not be accepted because of the new -- they were used to traveling with their pet and checking it with their luggage and now they can't and so they're just claiming emotional support. >> ED: Okay, fine. Another question -- not a comment, more a comment. We do have a task force now working on relief areas at airports. And that's moving ahead, but that will be us, the consumers, the passengers, et cetera, the airports and the airlines all coming together that will have to put through something like that, but that is a major concern because of the current security conditions where people who have to take their service animals outside of the secured area and then have to come back through, may be so delayed in making a connecting flight could be jeopardized. So we're trying to work within that issue as much as we can. You had asked for some tips on long distance travel, Rachel, and we have a number of those. One obvious one is the limitation of food before a fairly long trip with ample opportunity for -- and I'm going to talk about dogs because that's what we're all about -- ample opportunity for the dog to relieve before the trip -- before getting on the airplane. When we flew from Atlanta to Capetown, a continuous journey of 15 hours, we were able to have somebody from the airline that was south African airlines take our dogs out for relief on the tarmac which they conveniently did and there were no problems. When we got to the other end, the relief was done by us before entering the terminal. And it worked out very well. So relieving -- the food issue is another one. Keeping the dog under control either under the seat in front of you if you're sitting that way or the bulkhead area, dogs do get anxious, particularly on their first flights on airplanes. And the recommendation from behaviorists is you do not provide undue comfort under those conditions, but basically ignore the condition until the dog settles down. The other thing that we've been told to do is provide ice chips for our dogs during the flight so they will not get dehydrated, even though they don't have access to water. You don't want to give them too much water because of the relief issues that might be involved. The dogs, of course, will be under the control of the person at all times and that's a big issue at airports, too. Dogs have to, as they're going through terminals be on leash and under control of the human disabled partner. And a couple of things we've been able to work out with the security folks is that when going through security, dogs cannot be separated from their disabled handlers or partners, nor can the equipment be taken off the dogs at the request of the security agents. A lot of dogs when backpacks come off or harnesses come off believe they are off duty and that's not a great condition to have under airport conditions. So those are a couple of tips that we have in long distance travel particularly. >> RACHEL: Great. Thank you. There were two more questions that came in. So, Stacy, if I could pose them to you quickly and then we can wrap up here. The first one is people want to know what the best way is to find out the rules for service animals for a particular foreign country. >> STACY: If it's the United Kingdom, the best thing would be -- or actually almost anyplace in Europe is to contact the airline and make your reservations. If you're traveling internationally, the easiest thing to do is let them know that you are travelling with a service animal and then actually get in contact with that carrier's cargo department to find out what the rules are for that animal. All the carriers are different. To travel into the United Kingdom, the carriers actually had had to apply individually and Continental is the only carrier at this time that has the permission to fly into the United Kingdom under their travel rules that will exempt you from their quarantine. Any other countries, the best bet is to after making your reservation, find out as much information as you can from the carrier and then you may want to double-check with the consulate of the country that you're traveling to to make sure that there is nothing that that country may require of you coming outbound. >> RACHEL: Okay, great. The last question is a clarification question. Are airlines required by law to take service animals in training or is it optional? >> STACY: I believe that is optional. >> RACHEL: Okay. So that's optional if I'm correct you said that Continental will accept them. >> STACY: Right. We do. >> ED: This is Ed. We went through that recently and absolutely that is the case. Some airlines will permit dogs in training with the trainer to come on board. Some will permit it only when the service animal is being delivered to the disabled partner and not at other times so that the policies vary from airline to airline. And I must admit, and I love it, that Continental is one of the good leaders in this. Because we've got to get our dogs to us at the other end as the people who are being partnered with the dogs. >> RACHEL: Right. And also I understand that the best way to train a dog who is going to travel is by actually travelling with them. >> TONI: This is Toni. As I understood though, Stacy, you said dogs that were fully trained but with a nondisabled person could not be boarded on Continental? >> STACY: Right. No, they can go on Continental, they would just have to go with the pets -- as a pet. >> TONI: Okay, now, this is a problem because, let's say a dog was trained at a facility, in our case this is guide dogs. Let's say the dog was trained in Michigan and the sighted trainer was bringing the dog to us in California. This is not a puppy in training. This is a fully trained assistance dog. Does that mean that you would not allow the trainer to fly in the cabin with the dog? >> STACY: Well, if you had a letter -- if the handler had a letter stating that the animal was in training, then the airlines would allow it. If the animal even though he was on a harness and traveling with somebody without a disability, this is a really gray area because there is kind of -- there is my personal opinion here, but what would happen if somebody asked and the customer said, well, I don't have a disability. I'm just delivering this animal, no, we do not have to take the animal. That is the law because the animal is for a customer traveling with a disability. And we accept the service animal for that customer as an accommodation for the disability. That customer does not have a disability, so I would not take it. >> TONI: and yet you would have better guarantees that that animal is better behaved than, let's say, a six-month old puppy who is in training. >> STACY: Right. >> TONI: This is a Continental rule not an FAA rule, I would imagine. >> STACY: the service animal in training? >> TONI: or, no, the completely trained service animal who is being handled by a nondisabled person? >> STACY: That's actually covered under the new federal regulations that came out in July with the service animals traveling with non-- a customer without a disability. >> RACHEL: Okay. I'm sorry, go ahead and finish. >> STACY: No, that was it. >> RACHEL: This is Rachel. I just have to jump in because I see that our time is up. Clearly we could continue discussing this for some time, so I really do want to thank all three of you, Stacy, Ed and Toni, for giving us some of your expertise and sharing some of your experience with us that can really help other people. If people have additional questions or comments, please do send them in. We will respond to you or if appropriate we will forward them to Ed and Toni or to Stacy. So I just would like to close us out today quickly. Remember that on June 16th, we will have an additional webcast on service animals. At that time we will cover transportation that's covered by did ADA. And I want to tell people we have gotten a bunch of questions in about ambulances and service animals. And we will spend a good deal of time on June 16th addressing that issue. And lastly, I would like to acknowledge NIDRR who funds your host for today's program and your host is the Disability Law Resource Project. In addition to all of our presenters, there are a few other people that I would like to thank. At ILRU there is Marj Gordon, Sharon Finney, Dawn Heinsohn, Vinh Nguyen, Rob Dickehuth and Marie Bryant our realtime captioner. Thank you everybody and we look forward to connecting with you again on June 16th. Have a great day.