Challenging accommodation issues: Ask the job accommodation experts. Presenters: Linda Carter Batiste, Mandy Gamble, Kendra Duckworth and Beth Loy. >> RACHEL: Good afternoon everybody. And welcome to today's webcast, this is the third of three webcasts dealing with the employment provisions of the Americans with Disabilities Act. My name is Rachel Kosoy. I am with the Disability Law Resource Project, your sponsor for today's event. I will be moderating the webcast and voicing your questions to the presenters. I know that a lot of you are already tuned in, so I'm going to try to do my spiel very quickly, so we can move along to the presentation. I just wanted to say one thing and let you know that if you're looking at your RealOne Player, there is probably a button up there that says cast a vote. Don't pay any attention to it. It's an accident. I don't think it's even functional, so if you were wondering about it, just treat it like freckle. I also want to remind everybody about submitting questions. In order to submit a question, you can click the submit question button which is at the bottom of your RealOne Player screen, or you can simply address something to webcast@ilru.org. So please go ahead and send those now if you have them and also you can send them in at any point during the presentation, and I will pose your questions to the presenters as they pause to take questions. If anyone has technical difficulties today, feel free to give us a call for help. The number is (713)520-0232. And you can just hit 0 for the operator. Okay, today's topic is challenging accommodation issues, and we get to ask the job accommodation experts that question. The other two parts of this series are available through our archives. Part 1 was pre-employment and the ADA, disability questions and medical exams. And part 2 was smart disability-related employment policies. Now, today's webcast is going to address some very tough questions about reasonable accommodations. We are lucky to have with us four experts from the Job Accommodation Network or we fondly refer to the organization as JAN. Together these experts really can handle just about any accommodation question we throw their way. And they will begin by giving us a short introduction to JAN as well as to reasonable accommodations and then we're going to jump right in to questions. Let me quickly introduce our presenters. First we have Linda Carter Batiste, she has been a JAN consultant since 1992. She is an attorney and also has a masters in rehabilitation counseling and vocational evaluation. Linda is a member of JAN's motor team and she specializes in accommodations for individuals with motor impairments and addiction. Our second presenter is Mandy Gamble. Mandy has been a JAN consultant since 1998. Her bachelor's is in psychology. Her master's is in rehabilitation counseling and vocational evaluation. She also has an executive master of business administration. Mandy is a member of the JAN's sensory team. So she specializes in vision impairments, diabetes, HIV/AIDS and blood disorders. Another presenter with us is Kendra Duckworth. She has been a JAN consultant since 1991. Her bachelor's is also in psychology and her master's is in rehab counseling. Kendra is a member of the cognitive neurological team. And she specializes in psychiatric impairments, brain injuries and burn injuries. Beth Loy, our fourth presenter, has been a JAN consultant since 1996. She is an assistant professor at West Virginia University. She has a doctorate of philosophy in resource economics, and Beth has three masters degrees. I did hear by the way that these JAN women are a little competitive and I think you can tell they have a lot of credentials here and we're in for a lot of expertise. Let's see, Beth is a member of JAN's motor team and she specializes in workplace ergonomics and accommodations for individuals with motor impairments. And she is also JAN's web master. So I'd like to now turn it over to you. I believe Linda is going to take it a way. >> LINDA: Good afternoon everyone and thanks Rachel for the great introduction. We'll try to live up to your expectations there. Thanks also for inviting us to participate in today's webcast. We've listened in on several of your previous webcasts and thought they were very informative so we're really excited to have the opportunity today to be involved in your series on ADA and employment issues. Hopefully for most of you listening today you have the presentation that we've prepared for you. We're going to be using it as an outline if you'd like to follow along. Again, the title of our presentation is challenging accommodation issues, ask the job accommodation experts. Our plan today is to spend about 20 minutes or so giving you an overview of the services that we provide at the Job Accommodation Network and discussing some of the challenging accommodation questions that we receive from our callers. Then we want to spend the rest of the time responding to your very difficult questions that we've seen so far. First, let me tell you a little about the Job Accommodation Network. We call it JAN for short. This is a service of the U.S. Department of Labor Office of Disability Employment Policy. In addition to me, you'll be hearing today from three other JAN consultants. As Rachel mentioned, Mandy Gamble is here, Kendra Duckworth and Beth Loy. You'll see a brief description of the type of information we provide at JAN, information about job accommodations, the Americans with Disabilities Act and for people with disabilities, we provide information about small business and self-employment options. You'll also see that JAN services are free. You can call us toll free and the information we provide is all free. On the third slide, you'll see several pictures of lovely Morgantown West Virginia. JAN is located in Morgantown in West Virginia University and we've been here since our inception in 1983, but we do provide information to callers throughout the United States. And anyone can call us. We get calls from employers, employees with disabilities, their family members, unions, doctors, lawyers, students, rehabilitation and educational professionals and many other groups. Anyone can call us. On the fourth slide are several words that we use to describe our services. First our services are personal, meaning that we discuss accommodation situations one on one with each caller. Our services are also prompt. We know from experience that accommodation information needs to be provided quickly. So we try to get answers for you the same day that we talk to you or if we need to research your questions, we'll get the information to you as soon as we find it. JAN staff is courteous to callers. We want you to feel free to call us about any accommodation issue that you have. Knowledgeable refers to our longevity of our staff, for example the four of us sitting here today have over 40 years of combined experience at JAN. Professional refers to the education level of the consultants. As Rachel mentioned we all have at least masters degrees and several of us have advanced degrees. And finally, JAN services are confidential. We'll never discuss one caller's case with another caller or release information about a caller without that caller's permission. To give you an idea about the volume of services we provide. On the fifth slide you'll see that on average JAN receives over 35,000 accommodation inquiries a year and over 1 million web page requests per quarter. You can use JAN's services in a variety of ways. For example, by telephone, fax, E-mail or mail, but most people still call us. When you call us, an assistant will ask you questions to direct you to the right consultant. As you'll see on slide 7, JAN consultants work on teams, including the sensory, cognitive, motor and small business teams. All of our calls involve a variety of accommodation issues. For example, many calls involve questions about assistive technology and products like those pictured on slide 8. JAN maintains a dates a base containing information on over 10,000 products. Other questions we receive involve accommodation issues such as those list order slide 9. For example, modifying work schedules, work from home issues, job restructuring, changing management styles and managing personal needs in the workplace. And almost all of our accommodation calls involve questions about the ADA. On slide 10 you'll see some of the broad categories of ADA issues that we deal with, including what is the definition of disability, what medical questions can employers ask, what accommodations are reasonable, when is an accommodation an undue hardship? And unfortunately we receive many questions about how to file a complaint. That's my quick overview of JAN's services. I'm now going to ask Mandy, Kendra and Beth to each give you an overview of the types of conditions they cover on their teams as well as some of the challenging accommodation issues they deal with. Let's start with Mandy who is representing the sensory team. >> MANDY: Thank you, Linda. As I said -- as Linda said, I'm Mandy Gamble and as a member of the sensory team I focus on conditions involving the senses. Not surprisingly, we receive the most number of calls related to vision impairments and deaf and hard of hearing. This is followed by diabetes and respiratory impairments which include a large amount of inquiries about the use of fragrances in the workplace. We also get questions about speech impairments, HIV/AIDS, hepatitis and skin conditions. The sensory team deals with many different types of accommodation issues, but here are some examples of some of the more challenging issues. Transportation -- the sensory team fields a lot of questions about employer's obligations related to transportation. An employer is not required to provide transportation to and from work unless they do so for other employees; but they may need to consider accommodations that would allow the employee to get to work, such as modifying his schedule for an employee who must rely on public transportation due to their disability. Another challenging issue is work-related travel accommodations. This generally involves examining the essential functions of the job. Let me give you an example: An employee must attend a meeting across town, but they are blind and do not drive. In this case, the essential function is attending and participating in the meeting, not driving. So the employer can consider accommodations that would allow the employee to attend the meeting. Some accommodation ideas might be to ride with a coworker, use public transportation, hire a driver or possibly attend the meeting by teleconferencing. The same technology we're using right now. Another issue is alternative work schedules and arrangements. Providing a modified schedule is a type of accommodation according to the E. E. O. C. This can include providing breaks as needed, a flexible schedule, changing a schedule, or working part time. Additionally, we discuss alternative work arrangements such as telecommuting, working from home, or working from an alternative location. This could be a consideration for someone who has difficulty commuting to and from work, has symptoms of fatigue, and could be more productive by working from home. Again, these challenges, with these types of accommodations are identifying the essential functions of the job. If you want more information about identifying essential job functions, go to the ADA technical assistance manual, Title I. There is a section 2.3a, which addresses identifying essential job functions. Another issue that comes up is direct threat and safety. One of the most complicated issues for the sensory team is direct threat and safety in the workplace. I typically spend my time educating callers about the particular condition defining direct threat as outlined by EEOC and discussing accommodations to reduce risks. These calls often involve discussions on making job-related medical inquiries to make individualized assessments to determine if the employee can perform the essential functions of the job safely. I always put an emphasis on making the individualized assessment based on factual evidence. Workplace policies -- modifying a policy is also an accommodation under the ADA. This might involve attendance policies, eating and drinking at work stations, dress codes, having animals in the workplace, and the controversial issue of the use of fragrances at work. We have already received some inquiries regarding fragrances from some webcast participants and I will be addressing those during the question component of our presentation. One other topic I'd like to address as a challenging accommodation issue is personal assistant services or PA S. PA S. is a form of assistance used by persons with disabilities to perform tasks that the person would perform for themselves if they did not have a disability. Qualified readers and sign language interpreters are examples of pas. Funding for these types of services is the challenge for employers and employees for personal use of PAS at work. Those are just some of the challenging issues facing our many callers from all over the country. I could probably go on and on, but I'm going to turn it back to Linda right now. >> LINDA: Thanks, Mandy. Next let's hear from Kendra who is representing the cognitive team. >> KENDRA: Thank you, Linda. On the cognitive team we deal with a lot of disabilities such as mental illness, bipolar disorder, depression, posttraumatic stress disorder. We deal with learning disabilities, attention deficit disorder, epilepsy, head injury, sleep disorders such as sleep apnea and narcolepsy and other conditions such as Turrets Syndrome, mental retardation, and fibromyalgia. My team deals with some of the -- such as organizational skills, meeting deadlines, scheduling issues, fatigue and reading and writing difficulties. Challenging accommodation issues as well -- well, every day can be a challenge if you're a member of the cognitive team. Most of the time we talk about accommodations that require some flexibility and creative thinking, not products or catalogs. Typical accommodation issues can deal with attendance, direct threat and discipline, conduct issues, a variety of things. Let's focus on attendance. Often a person's condition can make it difficult to get to work on time or some days at all. For many jobs, it's an essential function of that position to come in to work on a timely and reliable manner, but not all positions require this. A flexible start time can enable a person with a disability to come to work within a specified grace period with the understanding that he or she will make up that time during the week or submit leave time for it. Allowing a person to work from home part of the time or to come in during off times can also be an accommodation. I also deal with issues of conduct and discipline. Yes, an employer can discipline an employee for inappropriate conduct and behavior, even if that behavior is caused by the disability. The employer's obligation is to accommodation the employee to meet the standards of conduct and not to lower the standards. That is why it's important for the person with the disability to discuss that they have a disability and disclose that information and request accommodations at the first sign of performance problems, not to wait until they are faced with termination. I also deal with myths and stereotypes around mental illness every day. Hidden disabilities can be just as limiting as any other physical or sensory limitations. People also believe that people with psychiatric disabilities can never work. This is rarely the case. Mental illness is one of the most common disabilities in the workplace. Major depression is a leading cause of disability in the United States and affects over 9 million adults in a given year. 15 percent of all -- of the U.S. adult population uses some form of mental health services in any given year. Some mental illness is a very common disability and something employers will be dealing with every day. Supervisory methods is another way to accommodate an individual with a disability. The ADA never requires a supervisor to be moved as a reasonable accommodation, but it does require the employer to consider other supervisory methods, such as communications through E-mail instead of verbally. Offer positive praise and reinforcement using written goals and job agreements; being clear about those expectations and consequences, not meeting those expectations, those are all ways to add juice your methods. An example of this is an employee I talked to last year which was experiencing posttraumatic stress disorder. He asked his supervisor not to walk up behind him and tap him on the shoulder. This is an adjustment of supervisory methods. I also suggested they give him a mirror to mount on his workplace to see who is behind him. One last point I'd like to make before I turn this back over is it's important to remember that the accommodation process is an interactive process between the employee and the employer and that it's an ongoing process. When you're dealing with accommodations for cognitive impairments, there may not be an easy answer or quick fix. You may find that after a year the accommodation you've agreed to is no longer effective so it's important to keep those lines of communication open and try to handle problems before they become crises. Now back to Linda. >> LINDA: Thanks, Kendra. Finally, let's hear from Beth who is representing the motor team and who also serves as JAN's web master. >> BETH: Okay, so even though I'm probably most famous as the JAN consultant with the wild hair, I have to be here today as a member of the JAN motor team. What does the JAN motor team do? We deal with bones and muscles. Yes, I said bones and muscles. Now, what do you think our largest number of calls involve? Let's just think about it for a second. (jeopardy music). What are back conditions? Yes. So maybe I have to find a few ways to entertain myself these days, but basically the motor team takes a lot of calls involving back conditions. We also deal with impairments like multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, cancer, carpal tunnel syndrome, and spinal cord injuries. Some of the calls you may not know that we deal with involve impairments like obesity, body odor, reflux and even I am potency. Basically if it's an accommodation situation that involves a body part, we deal with it. Now, some of the more challenging accommodation issues come up in motor team calls. Yes, there is a little fun filled competition at JAN. First and foremost, we deal with the definition of disability. In many of the traditional motor-related disabilities, and I call them for lack of a better word this may not be such a contingent issue. These include impairments like MS, C. P. and even cancer. However, for industrial injuries like back conditions and carpal tunnel syndrome, this is a really, really gray area. So we can't make a determination as to whether a person has a disability, many people like to use us as a sounding board for making a decision. Now, our second challenging issue that comes up is whether lowering of production standards is an undue hardship. Well, lower a production standard isn't an undue hardship because this is not considered reasonable. It isn't an undue hardship issue because the accommodation never gets to the point of determining hardship. So an employer can hold employees with disabilities to the same standards of production and performance as similarly situated employees without disabilities. And, yes, the third challenging issue is parking. This is the most controversial accommodation issue of the decade. Now, why is this? Okay, I'm not going to play the music again. Well, for one reason there is disagreement in the courts. Imagine that. So basically accommodation issues involving parking get rather complicated. Now, our fourth challenging issue that typically involves the motor team is modification of dress codes, including workplace hygiene requirements. For example, just the other day, I had a case involving someone with arthritis who needed to wear a different kind of shoe. Now, most authorities, including EEOC, treat dress codes as conduct rules and classify them as a type of conduct rule. Unless we justify it as job related and consistent with business necessity before being enforced. So many times we have to help callers distinguish between per se (Inaudible) rules such as those prohibiting violence and others such as dress codes that may have to be justified as business necessity. A fifth challenging issue involves providing personal assistant services. For the motor team the question is about providing a personal attendant as an accommodation. In general, it is the responsibility of the employer to consider providing (Inaudible) to job-related functions an employee's responsibility for providing an attendant for personal needs. Now, employers are not required to provide personal attendant care for employees at the work site, employers may provide attendants for travel a way from the office. This can get very complicated. Those are probably the most challenging issues that the motor team deals with on a daily basis. One other thing I'd like to mention is two other services that JAN provides. They are very important not only to the motor team but the sensory and cognitive team. First we have JAN's searchable online accommodation resource. This is something that's offered on our website and it is step by step process where users can log in to explore accommodations independently. We also have the Small Business and Self-Employment Service, this is something that JAN provides to assist employees with disabilities in starting their own small businesses. >> LINDA: Thanks, Beth. Rachel, I think we're ready to go to questions now. >> RACHEL: Okay. I've got a whole bunch of them here. Actually, I think the first one I'll ask will go to Beth because this question is directly related to what she was just talking about, personal attendant services. And this comes from an employer who has an employee who needs help in the rest room. He did ask us that even though the rest room itself did comply with the ADA, that additional modifications were made to enable him to use the rest room independently, however, he still is needing help or asking for help. The employer does not want people assisting him in transferring, lifting or dressing because they are potentially dangerous and the other employees are not comfortable with it. Can you offer some suggestions or ideas? >> BETH: He currently doesn't have a personal attendant. In this situation, it would be the employer was responsibility to set up a personal attendant to come on site and it would probably be the employer's responsibility to make an accommodation to allow the personal attendant to come on site. Otherwise, he would be trying to make some other modifications to the rest room. >> RACHEL: Okay. And it looks like the modifications have already been made and he still needs the assistance. So at this point it's the responsibility of the employee, rather than the employer, is that what you're saying? >> BETH: It would be the responsibility of the employee to go ahead and get that personal attendant to come on site. It would be (Inaudible) -- or some other local service. It would be the employer's responsibility to allow the personal attendant to come on site in order to -- an employee who is traveling then the burden may shift. >> RACHEL: I have a couple of questions here dealing with (Inaudible). This comes from somebody who wants to know if there is a complete absence -- if a period of complete absence from work is offered as an accommodation, how much time is reasonable for that and to help in their sort of processing it, should a time limit be established in policy or should a time limit be decided on a case-by-case basis? And then should the amount of time be determined and acknowledged by all parties at a certain time in the process? And the questioner said that this issue comes up in their business repeatedly with mental health issues. >> LINDA: This is Linda. I'm going to take that one. We get a lot of questions related to leave as an accommodation and unfortunately there is no set amount of time under the ADA that you can point to as a reasonable amount of time. It eye very specific to the situation, the type of job involved, what happens when the person is on leave, are the other employees able to fill in and you've got to take a look at that on an individualized basis. So it's not okay to set a rigid time frame and say this is what we'll give you and no more. It depends on the situation at the time the leave arises. Certainly it's a good idea at the time an employee requests an accommodation to try to figure out how much time the employer can reasonably give the person. We get a lot of calls from people that think employees with disabilities who think they've been allowed a certain amount of time and then they get a termination letter and it's really upsetting to that individual to find out that they don't get the time they thought they did. So I do think it's a really good idea to let the employee know if you can how much time you're going to be able to give the employee. If you're not sure that you can give six months, if you can give three, let the employee know that it's going to be reassessed after three months and maybe you can look at alternative accommodations. So don't set a rigid time frame, but certainly let the employee know at the time the request arises whether you're going to be able to grant the time needed and certainly try to look at other accommodations if possible and we also try to encourage employers to look at the Family and Medical Leave Act if it applies and any state laws that applies so they're covering all their bases. >> RACHEL: Okay. These two other leave questions follow up nicely. One is -- is it okay to lay somebody off while they are out on leave? >> LINDA: If the employer -- under the ADA the employer must take a look at whether the person's position can be held. If it's going to pose an undue hardship to hold the person's position, then the next step would be to look at whether the person can be reassigned to a position that can be held for the amount of time needed. If at the end of that process, the employer determines it's an undue hardship to hold the current position or a reassignment is not available that can be held, then ea its okay to look at other options such as layoffs or sometimes even termination, but the employer needs to go through the first steps before making a determination to lay somebody off. >> RACHEL: Okay, and this -- just to let people know who are listening -- I'm paraphrasing some of the questions. This questioner is asking this -- it seems like it's in reference to a large company that is continually going through reorganizations and tough economic times might need to do layoffs and if somebody is out on leave, can they still be considered for layoffs like other people? So it's not a matter of the job being held, they are I guess getting rid of a number of people in that position. >> LINDA: I see what you're saying. Well, under the ADA it is okay to lay the person off if they would have been otherwise laid off had they been in the work environment. What is not okay to do is decide who is going to be laid off on the basis of who is on medical leave. So I always encourage employers to take a look at what basis are you using to decide who is going to be laid off? If it's on the basis of seniority or on the basis of the type of job involved and what jobs the employer needs to maintain, then it's okay to layoff somebody who is on leave if they don't have any more seniority or enough to be retained. But it's not okay to focus on the fact that they are on medical leave and choose them for that purpose. >> RACHEL: Okay. We have another leave question that actually relates to state law as well. This question is about if an employee returns from a medical leave with restrictions that have an end date, and the employer can accommodation that, should this be considered under the ADA or under the Washington law against discrimination or neither? >> LINDA: Well, what we always tell callers is that we are not well versed in state laws. Employers need to take a look at all the laws that might apply, other federal laws like the family medical leave act, ADA and then all the state laws that might apply. Which ever law offers the most protection, the employer is going to need to follow. So if an employer has potential coverage understate law and ADA, they need to look at both and make sure that the individual's rights under both laws are addressed. So it could be a situation where both laws would apply or just maybe one or the other. >> RACHEL: Okay. I'm going to shift and ask a question here that has to do with a sensitivity to noise, and this comes -- this question relates to a teenager who has Ausburgers as well as ADHD and with that has an exceptional sensitivity to various noises, most notably though includes sensitivity to the ring of a telephone. What kinds of accommodations might this person have a right to request in relation to this part of her disability? >> KENDRA: This is Kendra and I'm going to try to answer that question. Boy, I understand the issue of being sensitive when the phone rings. I cringe every time I go home and the phone rings. In this situation you can either look at an alternative sound for the phone. Many phones, especially new phones have digital ringers where you can change the tone and frequency of the ring. Also you can change the indication of the phone to an instant sound to a light source, maybe a blinking light or a red light for the individual to know that the phone is ringing or there is someone on the line for them. In a work environment, you probably want to take a look at the cubicle or the work space the individual is in and try to include sound absorption barriers that would help absorb some of the sounds of other phones. I'm glad I have Mandy sitting next to me. We talked about flashers. Those are some things to start with. That's a tough one, I've got to tell you. I'll ask the individual that submitted that question if they need additional information to contact us and we'll give her some more information. >> RACHEL: Okay, great. It does sound like there are a number of accommodations available and it might really depend on what type of work situation this woman ends up in. >> KENDRA: Right. >> RACHEL: I have a question now that relates to somebody with a severe hearing loss. And this relates to a woman who has a severe hearing loss. She is applying for medical residency and I'm going to paraphrase here because this is along question. One piece of information we have is that one of the essential functions of the job as it's written is that the resident must be able to read, write and speak English well enough to communicate effectively with hospital and clinic staff, colleagues and patients. A little more information about this woman's disability is that hearing aids are not useful to her because of her certain type of hearing loss. She also is not able to communicate using sign language. She has offered to provide accommodation which does work for her which is a hearing interpreter, which maybe you guys can actually talk about a little bit, and part of the question is can she require the employer to provide that accommodation for her, and a followup question is how this woman might address the issue in her applications because she has been criticized in the past for not alerting people to her hearing loss and yet she certainly doesn't want to red flag her application and not get an opportunity. >> MANDY: Okay, thank you, Rachel. This is Mandy and I'm going to try to address this one. It's an extremely complex question with a lot of different parts, and I might also suggest that this person give me a call so we can discuss it further because if I went into all these different factors and discussed them, it would probably take me about a half hour to try and figure out exactly what the issues were and try and find some solutions here. The first thing you mentioned was the essential functions of the job and we've talked a lot about that today. The essential functions of this particular job for being a medical resident is that they have to be able to communicate effectively in writing and in English. And they have to follow all the guidelines that they need to follow as a doctor. So how is this person going to perform the essential functions of the job? Well, I can't necessarily say exactly how they might be able to do this. We know that the employee or the individual has a hearing loss, but she does not use sign language, and that she is requesting what's called -- she termed as a hearing interpreter. I think what they mean by that is what's called an oral interpreter. This is somebody who watches your lips moving and then interprets to the individual with the hearing loss so they can read their lips. So it's called an oral interpreter. Whether or not the individual must provide that or whether or not the employer must provide that is an excellent question. I mean, ultimately, if it's an accommodation that will allow the individual to perform the job, the employer has to consider it unless it would pose an undue hardship. So that's where we get into this whole assessment of undo you hardship. Undue hardship means its a significant difficulty or expense. If you have a full time oral interpreter, how expensive is that going to be? Well, they might consider tax incentives that could offset that cost of the oral interpreter, but another part of undue hardship is whether or not it will fundamentally alter the nature of the service they're trying to provide here, which is prompt medical care. So if an oral interpreter is being used as the communicator between patients and the medical resident, how is that going to affect the type of service they're providing? And is it an undue hardship? I can't necessarily say that, but I'm going to give them the information about undue hardship so they can make that decision for themselves. Let's see, another issue that came up in this particular situation was how do I address this when applying for these residency positions? Well, it's really a personal decision on the part of the individual with the hearing loss. She needs to decide whether or not when to disclose and how to disclose. It seems like she's come up against some criticism for not telling someone up front; but technically she's not legally obligated to disclose the impairment before she's offered a job. So, again, I fall back to it's a personal decision. What she should be focusing on is her abilities, what are her abilities and skills as a medical resident? And that's what the employer should be looking at. And that's all I'm going to say right now about it. >> RACHEL: Okay. As a follow-up to that, I'm going to throw in because it's a question that we often get is this resident is going to be offering the hospital services that are worth less than the cost of providing the interpreter. So how should that figure in or should that figure in to the determination of whether or not this is an undue hardship for the hospital? >> that's a question we get often as well. According to the EEOC, you should not necessarily do a cost benefit analysis based on the particular job and how much that oral interpreter will cost to provide overall. The way to interpret undue hardship in this situation would be to look at the overall financial resources of the entity, in this case it might be the hospital, so they look at their overall financial resources of the hospital to determine if it was too costly to provide the interpreter. In addition, they still have to consider there are some tax incentives that might assist them for paying for the interpreter. There is more information about tax incentives on the JAN website if you'd like to find more information about that. >> RACHEL: Okay, great. Thanks. Okay, I'm going to shift gears here. We have a question that deals with an employee who deals with incontinence, and this is an employee who works as a dispatcher and frequently urinates in the chairs and well as leaves diapers in the bathroom and body odor is also an issue here. And the employer is looking for some help in how to handle this situation. >> BETH: Okay, this is Beth and I'm going to go ahead and take that question because it is in motor team-related question. My first question is has the supervisor talked to the employee? In this type of situation, it's often a difficult conversation for supervisor and employee to have, but it's a necessary conversation. So though this may be tough and sometimes awkward conversation, you basically have to do it. Especially since there is safety and health issues involved. And some things the supervisor can talk to the employee about are there any accommodations that can be made. Can the employee be moved closer to the rest room? Can there be changes made to the rest room? Is there some type of storage that would allow the employee to store diapers in a more private area. What about flexible scheduling or those options? So these are some of the questions that the supervisor would have to talk to the employee about. So there are some accommodations that can be made. Really they are individual specific so I would just suggest to start with a conversation. >> RACHEL: Okay. Do you have any recommendations for how an employer can approach an employee if body odor is the issue? >> BETH: Well, as far as body odor -- this can be difficult on both sides. Sometimes the employee doesn't know that he or she has a body odor issue. Sometimes the employee does know and is trying everything he or she can do about it, and sometimes this is tough because there isn't any great solution. So, again, the first thing I would start with would be a conversation between the supervisor and the employee to find out what the awareness level is. If the employee is aware, is there an underlying disability because sometimes with, say, treatment for cancer or some other types of medications, those types of things can cause body odor. If it's not a personal hygiene issue, if it is caused by an underlying disability. Then maybe some accommodations can be made such as moving the employee to a separate area, maybe there could be air purification, maybe the employee will be more comfortable working at home certain times of the month or certain days during the week. So those are some types of accommodations that could come up. One great way to address this -- I don't know we have the answer to that, it's really individual specific like any accommodation issue. >> RACHEL: Okay, thank you. This next question -- maybe you guys can help actually clarify the question for listeners as well. This question asks if you could provide suggestions for differentiating between accommodating between an employee's work restrictions versus perceiving the employee as disabled. >> LINDA: This is Linda again. We get that kind of question a lot. Employers are very worried if they do anything for an employee with limitations that they're going to be seen as regarding or perceiving that employee as having a disability. My understanding of the perceived as or regarded as prong of the definition of disability, the concern there is not necessarily for employers that do things for employees, but for employers that treat people as if they have a disability when they really don't. What I suggest to employers is if they want to informally want to go ahead and provide accommodations for employees with work restrictions and not really worry about whether they meet the definition of disability, go ahead and do that and if they want to make sure that everybody understands that they're not even going into the issue of ADA or the definition of disability, put something in writing to the employee saying we're going to go ahead and employ you with the modification that you requested, and we're not really going to get into whether you have a disability or not. We're just going to go ahead and provide this, and then you've covered the issue of whether you're treating that person that they have a disability, you're saying you're not going to that point you're saying you're just going to provide you with the accommodation that you need. The perceived as is really to protect people who don't have disabilities in a negative manner as if they have a disability and so an employer who goes ahead and provides accommodations in an informal manner shouldn't hopefully have an issue with being accused of perceiving someone as having a disability. >> RACHEL: Okay, and along those lines, we have a question -- it's kind of a big picture question, but maybe you can speak to it somewhat. Recommendations for what kinds of policies and practices employers should use in determining whether somebody has a disability and further in -- well, it's sort of written generally here, but provision of reasonable accommodations. >> LINDA: Well, we get that question a lot also. This is Linda again. Some employers want to be very informal and they don't want to have a process -- a written process that they follow. They want to try to accommodation anybody they can without really worrying about whether someone has a disability. For other employers, it's very important to keep records and they want to be consistent with how they approach these things, and they want to have specific forms that they use and really, as with many things with accommodations, it's kind of up to the individual employer as to what works best for that employer. We did put some information together on how to determine if someone has a disability. We have some medical forms using EEOC guidance. So for employers that want a more formal process, we have some materials that they can use to start developing their own policies, but as to what's going to work best, we try to provide the different options and the information, but then we let the employer decide what's going to work best for that specific situation. >> RACHEL: Okay. Shifting gears a little bit, I have a question that has to do with an employee with a mental health issue. This employee is actually in a counseling role, who is a therapist. He has a serious depression, including several suicide attempts, and the employer is having difficulty kind of weighing ethics, basically the best interest of the clients versus the law and responsibility to the law to the employee. And can you provide some clarity to someone with mental health related issues like this. >> KENDRA: Sure, this is Kendra. Accommodations in this situation could be some flexible time off for counseling and for therapy. Restructuring the job to include only the essential functions, maybe eliminate some things that are marginal to that position at least for a temporary time. The other issue here is because this person is a therapist or counselor themselves, they have to look at whether or not the individual is qualified to perform that job even with those accommodations. If the individual is not providing the service that the clients or the facility needs, then they may not be qualified for that position. If this is a severe situation, which it sounds like it is, it's almost a crisis situation, I think the employer needs to look at transferring that person to another vacant position where they may not have so much independent client contact, maybe partnering them with a mentor or a team member to work with that person in their counseling, and the issue of suicide attempts, there is not a lot of information here about when or how that happens, but if the individual is doing that on the job and that's disruptive to the job, I think the employer needs to address that. The individual also may be a direct threat to themselves because of the suicide attempts. I think in this situation the employer has the right to obtain some specific medical information about whether or not this person is able to come to work and whether or not this person is a direct threat to themselves and to others and to get that information from the individual's doctor. A lot of times employers are afraid to get information from a person's doctor about their current level of functioning, and I think that's the first place you need to go. Get the doctor's information, especially in this situation the doctor should be qualified and capable of saying, yes, this person should be coming to work or, no, they shouldn't. >> RACHEL: So if somebody is a direct threat to themselves like say they have -- that they are suicidal or they cycle in and out of being suicidal, but that's not -- that threat is really not connected to work, can direct threat be considered then in whether or not this person -- >> KENDRA: Well, again, I would get that specific information from that person's doctor. You know, suicide and depression can take many forms. It can be cyclical, it can revolve around anniversaries of traumatic events or loss of a loved one. Holidays can precipitate those kinds of activities. So it's difficult to say. I think the best thing you can do is get information from that employee's doctor about whether or not that individual is a direct threat to themselves and whether or not that person is able to come to work safely. >> RACHEL: Okay. Shifting gears, we have a question from somebody who -- let's see, it's from somebody at a college who is hosting a job fair for students with disabilities, and at this fair they plan to have several employers who will offer students mock interviews as well as an informal networking reception to facilitate students Ming link with potential employers and they'd like to know if you have some suggestions for them to keep in mind to make this a success. >> BETH: Well, this is Beth again. I think I'm going to take this one. First off, we actually have some experiences putting on these kinds of events. I think we are getting ready to do our third annual symposium in Orlando, so if anybody actually wants to meet us in person, they can log into the JAN website and find out a little bit more about what kind of show we're going to put on down there. I guess the most important thing is, first off, to provide a personal service, and secondly, to be clear about accommodations. Be clear about allowing students and anybody attending this type of event to know what accommodations are available and make sure that those accommodations are going to be made. Some of the things that we brain stormed beforehand were letting the students know about their rights during the interview process so they have that information to take out into the field when they are interviewing for jobs. Secondly, information on disclosure, maybe making -- having mock interviews that involve disclosure, that involve illegal questions or that involve an interview with not having a personal disclose. And we always suggest, get your local center for independent living involved, get your state governor's committee, advocacy and support groups and of course vocational rehab. So all those are great organizations to tap into. Hopefully that answers that question. >> RACHEL: Okay. I do invite the person who submitted it to call us or to call JAN if you'd like additional help or resources in that area. And I applaud you for trying to make it a real success. Okay, let's see, I have some questions that have to do with visual impairments or blindness. One comes from somebody who is a service provider in this area, and they say that people with blindness or visual impairments, for them, the cost of job-related accommodations is on average much higher than other types of accommodations and they are looking to find out if you have some sort of figure that they can quote which represents the average cost of accommodations for employees with blindness or visual impairments. >> MANDY: Thanks, Rachel. This is Mandy and I specialize in the area of vision impairments and unfortunately I do not have specific data on the average cost of accommodation for individuals who are blind or visually impaired. Sometimes that's difficult to kind of generalize whether or not one population -- whether or not accommodations for one population cost more or less than some other population. In general, I mean, yes, oftentimes vision impairments accommodations are going to involve purchasing equipment, what we call assistive technology. And that can get costly. It can cost thousands of dollars, but I still think you need to consider what the job is, what the limitations of the individual are. It could be as simple as just -- they may have a low vision impairment and maybe their job doesn't involve computer technology, so they don't necessarily need high technology, but they just need some modifications, maybe some tactile markings, so that is very low technology and that's not going to cost you a lot of money. So you have that full spectrum of accommodations that cost nothing or little versus accommodations that are going to be costly. Again, I do also want to emphasize that there is funding available out there. State agencies, vocational rehabilitation services, if you don't know what that is, an employer can utilize these services to, number one, identify technology that the person can benefit from, and number two, if you're a small business or a nonprofit agency, they may be willing to purchase the technology for you. In addition, the tax incentives are there to possibly purchase the technology and receive a tax credit for it. So, again, individualized accommodations is kind of what the theme has been today. That the cost of accommodations is going to depend on the particular situation. >> RACHEL: Okay. All right, I have another question that has to do with a receptionist who is blind. The challenging issue really has to do with the receptionist's lack of short term memory and cognitive understanding. It sounds like he has memorized extensions, but he's having trouble whenever something changes figuring that out or remembering it. Do you have some suggestions? >> KENDRA: Well, this is Kendra and I'm going to start on this and if Mandy has any ideas she can pipe in since she's sitting next to me. This is difficult dealing with vision as well as memory and cognitive issues. It's important to understand or at least know in this situation where the problem in memory is. Memory is a three step process. There is short term memory where instant information is stored for a temporary amount of time. There is long term memory so you can retrieve that information an hour from or a year from now and there is the process of retrieval where you have information stored in long term or short term memory you have to be able to retrieve that memory and memory problems can come in all of those areas or any of those areas. So in this situation we're trying to get more information about where the memory problem is. If this person is just learning the position, the learning curve is a curve. Not everybody learns information at the same rate. He may just need additional time. So provide him with additional training and more time to learn the job. Provide him with notes in some voice format. Not in a visual format, but to tape record messages to himself and use memo mates, any kind of instant recorder where he can record information and play it back. Also using text to voice technology, so if he's using E-mails or other information that's in printed format, that information could be read to him if he's using a computer or optical character reader. >> MANDY: Optical character recognition. >> KENDRA: I knew it was one of those. So there are a lot of devices that are designed for people with vision impairments that can also be helpful for somebody with a memory loss. Other than that, I don't know what else to say. I think I need more information to really provide a better accommodation idea. >> MANDY: Yes, this is Mandy. Additionally, I might consider tactile ways of finding that information. It almost sounds like the person is just forget because they are relying on memorizing information. Instead of memorizing it, use tactile resources. So if the person knows how to read Braille, have all the list of tensions and names in Braille. Or even tactile characters so if they don't know Braille they can kind of feel the names and extensions. Another idea would be to hook the telephone -- make it a computer telephone system where you're actually using the telephone through the computer so they can just look up the extension that way using scan reading software as Kendra has mentioned to identify the proper extension and also using tactile markings on the phone display itself. They might use certain marks for certain people so they can feel that person's extension. They may just be able to push a button to get their evenings tension rather than pushing a three number extension. Another product would also be -- well that wouldn't be related to memory. I was going to mention the Digisite product. So if you needed to read a digital display but couldn't see it, it would give you a speech output of what's on your phone. >> RACHEL: We actually just bought new phones and the phone now -- it automatically speaks the caller I.D. We have to figure out how to turn it off because it keeps freaking me out. >> MANDY: Yeah, sometimes it's too much information and they just need to know certain information. >> RACHEL: But it's interesting that that was available -- we weren't even looking for that type of accommodation -- we didn't have that special need and yet, you know, the phone we chose had it. So it really seems like a lot of this stuff is just generally available. Okay, I have a couple of questions that have to do with fragrances or multiple chemical sensitivity. One of them has to do with a work setting in which there is somebody who has multiple chemical sensitivity. There has been a policy put in place in the office that people are not allowed to wear strong fragrances. However, there are some people who continue to wear them and what's happening is the person with the sensitivity is ending up having to take a lot of sick leave because they are getting ill from it. Additionally, to complicate the situation, the management appears reluctant to enforce the policy. Can you offer any suggestions? >> MANDY: Most definitely. This is Mandy again. And the sensory team gets an awful lot of calls related to fragrances in the workplace and it's probably one of the most controversial issues going on right now. I liken it to the use of smoking in the workplace, you know, ten years ago or so. It is something that is not easily understood by some people. I'm not going to say most people, because a lot of people do understand it, and the issue is related to having a hypersensitivity to something. It may be a chemical or a smell. It's not necessarily anything in particular sometimes. So it's hard to identify sometimes even what the irritant is. So these are very challenging issues in the workplace. Now, if you have a policy in place, but yet coworkers don't follow the policy, they are still wearing their fragrances, and again, let me define what fragrances are. Fragrances are more than just perfume. They are scented body lotion, people using candles at work, hair spray -- anything that has a fragrance to it can trigger reactions. And these reactions can be anything from getting red eyes and having an irritated throat to people who actually go into respiratory failure right there at work. So it is a very real impairment in my eyes because we get so many inquiries about it. Everyone is different though. So it depends on their particular sensitivity and it also depends on what type of work environment they are in. But if the policy is implemented but coworkers are not following the policy, this is difficult because how do you enforce such a policy? Is an employer actually going to write somebody up three times and terminate them if they are wearing fragrances at work and how do you truly identify that they are actually wearing the fragrance? Is a manager going to do a sniff test, that's something that's very difficult to do and it's hard to identify that and follow through with the enforcement of the policy. So generally I suggest to employers that they try to educate employees about the use of fragrances. Why are they asking you to refrain from wearing fragrances? What is the importance here? The importance is because we're trying to make this a place where everybody can work and everyone can be productive. Some other ideas for accommodating involve your either going to try to eliminate the irritant or get rid of whatever it is that is triggering the irritant, but if that's not possible, then you try to create a barrier between the individual and the irritant. This might involve moving a coworker away from another coworker, working in an area that is not a high traffic area. So don't place the individual with the fragrance sensitivity next to the break room or the elevator or other places where employees are gathering a lot. You might also look at -- look at things such as having an inbox and outbox so employees who are wearing fragrances aren't entering your work area. You can pick up your documentation or whatever you need so you're not coming in direct contact with that individual and also using alternative ways of communicating so you are eye not coming in contact. The issue of attending a meeting might be a real difficult situation, so the individual with the fragrance sensitivity might attend the meeting by teleconferencing instead of actually being in the meeting if there is a coworker wearing fragrances. This is kind of the tip of the iceberg. We do have an excellent publication related to fragrance sensitivities in the workplace on our website and if you want additional information, I do have different articles that address these issues as well. You can E-mail me or call me for more information. >> RACHEL: Okay, along those lines, can you speak to a little bit of the balance between providing the employee with the sensitivity an accommodation and really creating some kind of hardship for coworkers. >> MANDY: You're always assessing undue hardship and whether something is too disruptive. I'm not really talking in terms hereof even is it a disability. That's the very first and biggest question is trying to even determine if this is a qualified individual with a disability, and then looking at, well, how far do I have accommodate someone. That's hard for me to say. I can't say how far the employer must go. There is some indication from the EEOC that the employer would not have to implement a fragrance free environment, but there is indication that the employer may have to do something. Now, how far they have to go is going to depend on the situation, but we do get the question related to isn't it other's personal right to wear fragrances if they choose to? And the way that I sometimes respond to that is, well, first of all, let's say if you're doing a job, ask yourself the question if you're a manager, do my workers need to wear fragrances to be able to do their jobs? Is it necessary? If it's not necessary, then why bring it to work? It's not essential to the job for those coworkers to have that fragrance on. The other issue is, you know, it's really difficult if an employer can indicator dictate how you behave at work and how you dress, how you wear your hair, you know, it's difficult to say the employer can't tell you whether or not you can wear fragrances. So oftentimes when you're in the workplace, you behave and act in the workplace as your employer dictates. >> RACHEL: Interesting things to think about. Definitely. Okay, I think you pretty much answered the second question except for one detail. The person is asking about a recommendation for the best -- well they said respirator. My guess is they are referring to an air purifier. >> MANDY: I actually think it could be both, but I believe a respirator would be a mask that somebody would wear to possibly create that barrier between the irritant so that they are not breathing in whatever the irritant is. So they're asking for a recommendation on what's the best respirator? Unfortunately, I can't give recommendations on any particular product because the nature of our service, but we do have a lot of information on respirator masks that are available. I suggest a person go to their physician, the physician will recommend a product that they can use because individuals have to have a specific lung capacity to be able to pull the air through a respirator and that is something that their physician needs to address. Also in addition, air purification systems could be used to help filter out the air. And again, this is something where -- I can't recommend one product over another, but there are so many products on the market that can be used. >> RACHEL: Okay, great. Yeah, actually it was very helpful, the discussion and your comments there, because there really are so many different angles or pieces in this puzzle figuring it out. Okay, switching gears some, I have a question about -- well, it's somewhat general, but can you provide ideas on accommodations for adults who have autism in conjunction with mental retardation? And the commentary is that the behaviors range from stereotypical such as finger and hand movements, rocking, vocal noises, fixation on objects, et cetera, to aggression in response to any change in the environment. >> KENDRA: This is Kendra and I'll sure try. It's difficult to talk about accommodations in general for such a diverse group of individuals, especially if you're talking about several individuals with those conditions. Probably in this situation you're looking at customized employment or support employment options for individuals. You want to look at repetitive tasks, simple tasks, repetitive tasks and reduce distractions within the work environment. Provide the individual a divided work space. In school we used to have study corrals. You can use those in work spaces as well to reduce the type of visual distractions and auditory distractions that may stimulate somebody with autism. As far as autism with retardation is going to depend on the individual's abilities and skills at that point. So, yeah, in general that's hard to do. Specifically, if you have an individual that is doing a particular type of job, I'd be happy to provide that kind of information. >> RACHEL: Okay. Yes, it is hard to provide the general information. We're going to keep going because I think we might actually be able to make it through all the questions we have here. Okay, I have actually a list of questions from one person and just to let this person know, some of these questions you are really asking for some specific information about measurements from the Americans with Disabilities Act accessibility guidelines. And so we will go ahead and E-mail those to you. But this set of questions have to do with accommodations -- well it says on construction and the business environment. One of the questions has to do with installing ATM machines. If the company installs an ATM machine, must it be accessible? What does the law say about that? And that might well be paired with the question about the company's cafeteria, and does if cafeteria have to be accessible? I'll hand it to you guys piecemeal if you want to handle those two first. >> LINDA: This is Linda again. There are bearing guidelines for employers depending on if they are talking about an area that's only accessible to employees versus the public. However, if they are putting something new in a building, if it's new construction or renovation, then they have to follow the ADA accessibility guidelines. We don't have those in front of us. There are specific guidelines for ATM's, so if this is something new that's going to be put in a facility, then it needs to be made accessible in compliance with the ADA guidelines. If it's an existing facility that was in place before the ADA and only open to employees, then the employer doesn't have to modify that area until an employee with a disability requests that as an accommodation. So it really depends on what the ATM is going to be used for, whether it's being put in now and whether it's for employees versus the public, but in general, for new construction or renovation, they need to look at those ADA guidelines that you're going to be sending them and follow those. >> BETH: Just to follow up on that, this is Beth, there is the trade research and development center at the University of Wisconsin Madison and that center does a lot of work related to ATM's and accessibility. And those trade center website is trade.wisd.edu. >> it's trace.wic.edu. >> RACHEL: And can you say something about evacuation procedures and what's required for people with disabilities? >> BETH: Well, evacuation procedures, this is a broad issue. This is Beth again. And we've been dealing with this issue for several years now and of course with what happened with 9/11, people kind of bounced back from that and went back to work, we started to get a heck of a lot of questions in this area. >> RACHEL: We're having a little bit of trouble hearing you. If you can get closer to the phone. >> BETH: What I was saying is that since 9/11 we've had a lot of questions related to this issue. And of course it covers all disability areas. It covers sensory issues for people with hearing, and vision impairments, people with psychiatric limitations and people with cognitive issues, learning disabilities and also people with motor impairments such as arthritis, maybe difficulty navigating stairs and of course people who use wheelchairs. So as far as answering what are some accommodations for that type of thing, what are the requirements under the ADA -- well, if there is an evacuation plan, of course the employer would have to consider accommodations for people with disabilities under that plan. And it could encompass all different types of impairments and limitations. One good resource for this is actually we have a publication that talks about all different types of accommodations. This publication is available on our website. So it might be better for me just to refer to that and then if there is a specific issue, again, contact us directly. >> RACHEL: Okay. And also just to let the questioner know, we can send you some additional resources. We can connect you with the JAN one as well as some other ones. So we will be in touch with you individually. Okay, I have a -- taking a question out of order here because it just came in but it's kind of a follow-up here. This has to do with fragrances. So if the employer does not have a policy prohibiting the use of fragrances in the workplace, is the employer required to create such a policy? And the sort of caveat here is that in this case the policy would actually require agreement by the union. >> MANDY: This is Mandy again Lo answered the first questions on fragrances. This is an excellent question, and unfortunately I can't give legal advice. I can't legally say that the employer is required to implement a policy. Could they if they want to? Yes. But I can't really say how far they have to go. Are they required under ADA to implement a policy about the use of fragrances at work? There is nothing to indicate that they have to, that they are required to under the law, but it certainly is a type of accommodation and I think generally what I suggest is to start off with educating employees about the use of fragrances and then ask employees to voluntarily decide not to use fragrances. So asking them to refrain from wearing fragrances so that you don't necessarily have to implement a specific policy; but there is nothing that says they are required to. >> RACHEL: Okay. I want to let one questioner -- I might be talking a little fast, but I'm just mindful of the time and I do think we can get all the questions done. We did get a question that is general about a come oh dating people who are bipolar or have posttraumatic stress disorder and we will go ahead and E-mail you links. JAN has some nice information suggesting different types of accommodations. We will E-mail that information to you and then please call us or certainly call JAN with some specific questions for a specific situation. Is that okay that I took that liberty, JAN women? >> LINDA: Yes, thanks. >> RACHEL: Okay, there question says on the flow chart would monitoring the accommodations be done by performing periodic needs assessments? I'm assuming the flow chart refers to one of the documents we put up there. And kind of in addressing this, if you guys could also address generally the responsibilities of the employer and the employee in figuring out the accommodation and then in the monitoring of it. Any takers? >> MANDY: This is Mandy. I'll address part of that and see if anyone has anything to add. As you know, with the accommodation -- accommodations in general, the process is an ongoing one. So even if you're a person with a disability and you're working, you may need -- you may not need an accommodation at all, but there may come a time where you do need an accommodation or your needs have changed. Also it may be that you're an individual -- you're working and you don't have a disability, but then you acquire a disability by an accident or just an age-related disability, and now you need accommodations, but it is an ongoing process. So when you look at the step in the accommodation process related to monitoring accommodations, I mean, there is nothing that legally says you have to monitor them, but it's a good idea. You want to make sure that whatever you have been providing has been effective. You want to look at whether or not you're providing technology -- it doesn't need to be updated or that using the equipment properly, is there something else that they now need? Or maybe the job has actually changed and you need to reevaluate accommodations because you have different job functions. So I just look at monitoring accommodations as very important in the process, but there is nothing in the law that decides to say it's an ongoing process, there is nothing in the law that says you have to monitor it. It just makes good sense to do so. >> LINDA: I'd like to add something, Rachel. One of the questions we get a lot from employees, if they don't know ahead of time that the employer is going to be revisiting or monitoring the accommodation, a lot of times they are very concerned that the employer is up to something or is going to yank their accommodation. So one of the things we always suggest employers do is let the employee know, we're going to be revisiting this in six months. Here is who is going to be contacting you. The purpose of this is to make sure the accommodation is working and in the meantime if anything comes up, please let us know. These kind of advance notices involving the employee in the process and letting them know how it is going to work can be so helpful and we don't get that call from the employee panicking wondering why this is being revisited. So just for employers who are looking at these things, if you're going to have a process, inform your employees because it's just very helpful to do that and keeps a lot of problems from cropping up. >> RACHEL: Yeah, that's a very good idea. Okay, I'm going to go into this next question. This comes from a very distressed employer. That's my own editorial comment, but I think this is really -- this employer is in a very tough situation. Okay, in this case, there are several staff who take long medical leave, and they really are disrupting the function of the department and it does look like for at least one person it's likely to keep occurring. And what happens when a department has two or three people out on FMLA at once and how can the manager manage the workload without replacing them? And I'm reading through this to see -- it sounds like to make the situation even a little more difficult, at the same time there is somebody else in the department who needs to take sick leave because of a child and is sick leave an entitlement? Can they be given disciplinary action? >> basically that's -- this manager is in a really tough situation because it sounds like a number of staff consistently can't be there though they might be entitled to that leave. >> LINDA: That is a really tough issue. And again the leave issues are some of the toughest ones we deal with here. When Family and Medical Leave Act enters the picture, we do have the basic information on Family and Medical Leave Act, but we always suggest that callers contact the U.S. Department of Labor wage and hour office for family and medical leave specifics. My understanding is that if employees are entitled to the leave, then they get it and that's tend of the story. There is an exception for key employees. I don't know the extent of the exception when you're talking about a situation where the employer is left hanging because so many people are using FMLA. That's a really tough situation and I would encourage that caller the contact the Department of Labor just to make sure that the employer understands its obligations and maybe there is some leeway there, but I'm not familiar enough with FMLA to advise the caller on that. With the sick leave for the child, my understanding is the same. FMLA may apply to that situation. The ADA is not going to apply to a leave needed for a family member who is sick. So that's going to be pure FMLA or state laws that may obligate the provider to provide leave time also. I can't be real helpful with that. It's really FMLA other than to encourage the employer to contact somebody about his obligation under that law. >> RACHEL: And the person who sent that question can call us -- can call the Disability Law Resource Project and we can do some research for you on that, and the E-mail webcast@ilru.org, that's how you can reach us and you can also reach us through the 713 number that was provided in your invitation. Okay, I have two comments from somebody -- well a comment and a question that has to do with V. R, vocational rehabilitation. One is a comment saying that one of the speakers stated that VR can purchase technology for a small business and as a point of clarification, she wants to let us know that they can't purchase technology for the individual and the technology remains the property of the individual so if the individual changes jobs, the technology follows the person. And then the question is regarding V. R. as a funding source for a personal attendant services, is V. R. funding limited to a certain time period until somebody is successfully employed or is it something that they can provide long term for somebody once they are working? >> BETH: This is Beth and I think I will address both of those questions. And the first issue, I don't recall anyone saying that. So we'll have to look back at the transcript and see if that was stated. Did somebody say that? Okay, Mandy. >> RACHEL: Somebody is going to jump up and down and say I said the wrong thing. >> BETH: I wasn't paying attention, which is usually the case when my coworkers are talking. So I'll just leave that. One thing I'd like to follow up with the personal assistant services, there is a center that we work without of the -- it's actually out of the University of California, San Francisco, and this is a good resource for research for PA S. in the workplace. We'll just leave that for another day. The second issue as far as the question about V. R, I don't know the answer to that. I don't think anybody here knows the answer to that. What we'd have to do is refer to the state V. R. service. >> RACHEL: Okay. And you think it might -- the answer might actually be different in different states? >> BETH: It's definitely going to be different in different states and my guess is it's goy to be different depending on where they are in the funding cycle. >> RACHEL: Okay. Fair enough. Okay. I think we've reached the end of our time. I have two remaining questions and I promise we will follow up with that person who asked those two questions individually. And I want to respect our time so I just want to say thank you so much to -- I have dubbed you the JAN women though I understand you commonly are called that. You have been really helpful. I love it how you did not miss a beat no matter what question I threw your way and you did not have the heads up on a bunch of those questions. Is there anything you guys want to say in closing before I close us up? >> BETH: Well, this is Beth and I'd just like to plug a couple of other services that we work with that would be useful to a lot of people calling in or dialing in or logging on today. One is the Office of Disability Employment Policies, employer assistance referral network, otherwise known as (Inaudible). And this is a free service that's designed to assist employers in locating and recruiting qualified workers with disabilities. And you can locate that via the website or they can also be reached at 866-earn-now. Or you can link to it off of our website. And the next service I like to plug is the Department of Census Computer Electronics Accommodation Program. They are in Virginia and any time we're dealing with some type of federal issue, especially if it's involving electronic accommodations, I'd have to refer to them for that type of thing. And you can find them again off of our website or at www.tricare.osd.mil/cap. And before my voice gives totally out I'm going to call it a day. I don't know if anybody else here has something to say. >> MANDY: I'll go first. This is Mandy. I just wanted to reiterate that if you're looking for specific products, listings of products and resources, please go to our website and search on the Searchable Online Accommodation website. And you can find your list of air purifiers and masks, and any computer technology you're looking for. If you have further questions, give us a call here at JAN. >> KENDRA: This is Kendra. I just want to make one last plug for our symposium that's coming up in September. Please join us in Orlando if you're interested in meeting the faces behind the voices. Come and meet most of the JAN crew in Orlando. We have a few days on the ADA, we have invited speakers, we'll have food, entertainment and with Beth along you never know what we're going to pull off. So if you need more information, you can find us in Orlando in September. And I just want to say to my buddy Bill who sent us three questions that we didn't get to, we don't get too much surfing questions here at the job accommodation, I'll E-mail the question to his surf board questions in Hawaii. >> RACHEL: He was the one whose questions we didn't get to. >> LINDA: I just want to say thanks again for having us. We really enjoyed this and for callers out there, give us a call all of our numbers are on the materials that you posted on the website, Rachel. And we'll be happy to help you with any questions you have. >> RACHEL: Okay, great. Thank you to each one of you. I have to do some quick signing off here. Many of you have agreed to fill out evaluation forms for us. You should now have those waiting for you in your E-mail boxes. We appreciate your helping us out with this. We are testing a new evaluation and would love your feedback about it. I would also like to acknowledge NIDRR who funds the Disability Law Resource Project, your host for today's program and several others who have made today possible, parts of the ILRU team, Marj Gordon, Sharon Finney, Dawn Heinsohn, Vinh Nguyen, Rob Dickehuth and Marie Bryant, our fabulous realtime captioner. So thanks everybody for joining us and we look forward to visiting with you next time. Have a great afternoon.