1 1 ADA Paratransit Eligibility. 2 Presenter: Marilyn Golden. 3 4 >> Jacquie: Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to today's Web 5 cast -- ADA Paratransit Eligibility, which is Part III of a V part series 6 presented by Marilyn Golden with DREDF. This Web cast is being sponsored 7 by the National Institute on Disability Rehabilitation and Research, NIDRR, 8 who funds your host for today's program at the DBTAC Southwest ADA Center. 9 I'm your moderator, Jacquie Brennan. I'll be assisting with today's 10 presentation. To submit your questions, click on the e-mail button on your 11 screen or you can e-mail questions directly to webcast@ilru.org. If you 12 should have any technical difficulties today, please call us at 13 (713) 520-0232. Again, thanks for joining us today. 14 I would like to introduce our presenter, Marilyn Golden. 15 >> Marilyn: Good afternoon. Thanks, Jacquie. This is the third 16 of five Web casts that we are very appreciative to ILRU for the opportunity 17 to do at the Southwest ADA Center. Today, we're focusing on transit 18 eligibility. Those of you who have been on previous Web casts will 19 recognize these terms. 20 You'll see on the materials list both an HTML version and a PDF 21 version of the exact same form. We will look at it very briefly. More 22 closely today, I'll be following this second material which is DREDF's ADA 23 outline which can be easily downloaded. The first handout which also you 24 have seen before -- actually, when I click on it, I am getting a screen 25 that says page not found on that third one. 2 1 >> Jacquie: Okay. I'll check on that. If we don't get it up 2 during the Web cast, it'll be up there for later. 3 >> Marilyn: It lists a number of things that are of use to 4 people including DREDF's ADA training manual -- the ADA implementation 5 guide, also known as the blue book, which you can purchase. The NCD report 6 picks up since then. It also talks about DREDF being available for 7 trainings -- really any kind of ADA training, and I encourage people to 8 contact me for that. My information is on the ILRU Web site. I also 9 mentioned the NCD report which I already talked about. The other thing 10 that is an important resource is the Web site of the Federal Transit 11 Administration on the ADA. You can find that Web site at 12 www.fta.dot.gov/ada. It has a lot of important resources -- law guidance 13 and filing an ADA complaint with the Federal Transit Administration. A lot 14 of other important things -- and it has done a number of reviews in a 15 number of cities. People who really want to go into what FTA is looking at 16 and what kind of determination it's making can look at those reviews. 17 There's just a lot of great things on that site. So that's all on that 18 number 3 handout. 19 Number 4 is the complaint form. I just pulled it out and put it there 20 on Number 4. So anyone who wants to file a complaint on discrimination can 21 do that. We emphasize it because a lot of people make complaints. You can 22 always complain right to the Federal Government. That is a more formal way 23 to enforce your ADA rights. But it's not really formal in the sense of how 24 you do it. You just fill out the form. Ideally, it should be very 25 thorough and have as many facts and dates and information you can possibly 3 1 put there. But you just fill out a form and send it in. There's no cost, 2 and it will be investigated. If you are not sure what's happening, you'll 3 find there's no discrimination. But you find that you fix an important 4 problem. We do encourage people to file complaints -- not to fill up the 5 archives, but because it's a good way for people to investigate whether 6 what's happening to them really is an ADA problem. The listing is a 7 handout on the DREDF Web site called how to make your case. I will talk 8 about that later in this Web cast. 9 There's also -- number 6 is transit eligibility. That's something you 10 can click on and download. 11 The seventh one is a link to the Department of Transportation, FTA, 12 Web site where this department of transportation guidance on origins, 13 destination, services. We discussed it in length two Web casts ago. I 14 wanted to announce something that some -- both transit agencies and 15 disability transportation advocates might be interested in and that is the 16 APTA, which is the National Association of the Urban Public Transit 17 Agencies. It's developing voluntary industry standards including things 18 covered by the ADA, like stop announcements on the bus. The working groups 19 include transit industry folks, disability advocates, and other people. If 20 you want to participate, you can call Cheryl at (202) 496-4875. Or you can 21 e-mail her. You're welcome to e-mail me, too, if I know you. But the 22 formal way to indicate your interest is to contact APTA. 23 We're looking today at ADA transit eligibility. Im going to go over 24 practices and a few FTA regulations. Jacquie, can you believe how many 25 years? 4 1 >> Jacquie: It's been a long time. 2 >> Marilyn: And we still are not finding full compliance in a 3 lot of situations. So that's why we have a lot to revisit. The thing that 4 strikes me is how much more we learned since the regulation. That's 5 important to know. There really isn't one document that has it all, but 6 what I'm trying to do in these Web casts is bring all these different 7 documents together and put the information in people's hands. 8 Let's start on the DREDF transportation outline. The way you're page 9 numbers may come out may be different. If you search for the word 10 eligibility, it is section 6, which is called 'paratransit is required', 11 and then little 'b' is the point on eligibility. 12 The ADA acknowledges in establishing requirements for paratransit. 13 There will always be some people with disabilities who will be able to 14 navigate, provided by our public agencies on their own. For those, the ADA 15 emphasizes the six-route transit as a preference. There really is a strong 16 bias toward the system in the ADA. There will always be some people with 17 disabilities who won't be able to use it. Some individuals who are blind 18 and don't have appropriate mobility training or are traveling in a new area 19 may need paratransit. Some people with some mental disabilities who may 20 need assistance to know how to get to where they're going may need 21 paratransit. People whose disabilities cause fatigue may be unable to 22 proceed on their own from bus stops and need paratransit. Some people who 23 have uncontrolled seizures will need specialized transit service. Back at 24 the beginning after the ADA -- the beginning of that period of time -- we 25 included people with mobility impairments who need accessibility and ramps 5 1 who need the bus. Now there are very few, if any, areas where the transit 2 agency has not had time to fill in with new buses that really should -- and 3 I think fully are accessible. When they're not accessible, that would be a 4 basis of eligibility. 5 Residency: That is another part of the ADA that addresses that. 6 Eligibility is completely irrespective of residence and whether someone is 7 eligible. Then you go into where they can be served. This is not just a 8 foolish distinction because, for example, somebody who lived outside the 9 service area may be able to get a ride with a neighbor to the service area 10 but will need transit to get further into the service area where they're 11 going. The ADA set up three categories for eligibility, and I'm going to 12 explain them. But I also want to give people sort of a caution about 13 becoming too concerned or obsessed with these categories. The categories 14 are useful for looking at the different kinds of characteristics. It 15 doesn't matter which category you're under. Take them somewhat lightly. 16 The first category is called somebody who can't navigate the system. 17 And the ADA center included anybody who is unable as a result of a physical 18 or mental impairment to navigate the train system or bus system without the 19 assistance of another individual to board, ride or disembark. And we like 20 to add the word independently. If a person can only navigate with 21 assistance, then they are eligible. If they can navigate with travel 22 training, that doesn't change their eligibility until they avail themselves 23 of travel training. They are not allowed to require travel training. 24 Examples include individuals with intellectual disabilities who can only 25 travel in a familiar location and can't navigate complex transfers and so 6 1 forth. 2 The second eligibility category was someone who needed an accessible 3 bus. It's still sometimes useful, as I will say in a moment. So 4 individuals with disabilities who can use accessible buses when such people 5 want to travel on routes that are still inaccessible, that is not fully 6 served by accessible buses. The Department of Transportation views the 7 routes as inaccessible only when all buses scheduled on the route are 8 accessible. So if you have a route with every other bus being accessible, 9 that route is not fully accessible. So someone traveling in that corridor 10 would have paratransit eligibility until every bus and every run on every 11 bus on every day on that route is accessible. 12 I want to digress a moment to talk about some other aspects of what it 13 means for a bus, or really for the transit system to be accessible. For 14 example, there is the issue of bus stops to people with visual impairments. 15 If a person can't locate a bus stop to wait at it -- for example, if the 16 pole announcing the bus stop is away from the hill, then that bus stop is 17 not accessible. If they don't have unique identification, they are not 18 accessible. Some transit agencies in other cities have poles that make 19 them accessible. In Oregon their bus stops have square poles, and no one 20 else erecting poles are allowed to use square ones. Of course, people have 21 to know the general location they're headed to, but the square pole allows 22 someone to truly identify the bus stop. If the person doesn't have another 23 way to know the bus stop location, that could trigger paratransit 24 eligibility. People who are legally blind would be conditionally 25 eligibility. 7 1 Now along the same lines, I talked about a finding from Federal 2 Transit Administration which people can look to if they want to. We're 3 only going to be on it briefly. But if you want to see it in writing, you 4 can go over to the MCD report. You can search for ADA administrative 5 complaints. The first time you find it, it's the table of contents listing 6 for what we want. If you're using the PDF version, go to the page that's 7 labeled 100. There's several bulleted points, and these are particular 8 determinations that the Federal Transit Administration have made on 9 particular complaints that people filed. 10 The first one is the one I want to look at. There's a systematic 11 problem with the calling out of bus stops. There's a low rate of calls to 12 stops. An individual with disabilities who needs the stops to be called 13 out in order to use the bus must be granted paratransit eligibility. There 14 are many features of bus system and train system access that if they are 15 not present, could affect or could trigger paratransit eligibility. 16 Now as we led up to today, just a couple of days ago, somebody from a 17 transit agency e-mailed me through ILRU a question in advance discussing a 18 similar problem to the ones we've talked about. But he described problems 19 in what we call the public right of way, which means the streets and 20 sidewalks. He talked about how there's a lack of accessible pathways in 21 his community, and this agency, therefore, gives blanket approval to people 22 who have disability issues -- for example, a cane walker or wheelchair, if 23 there are no sidewalks and/or curb cuts to transition a person to a fixed 24 bus stop near where they live or near their destination. He also mentioned 25 a nearby city that says when they're doing development in the public right 8 1 of way, if there were not enough sidewalks in the first place, they don't 2 have to put them in. And our projects are funding to improve traffic flow. 3 This makes it hard for people with disabilities to use the system even 4 where it is available. He wanted me to comment on these things, which I am 5 going to do. He threw in another question. He mentioned that they do not 6 give riders approval just because the paratransit does not travel to where 7 they live. The bus does not come to my house -- what does that have to do 8 with the issue? That's not the basis of giving or denying eligibility. 9 But regarding the other issues in the public rights of way, I did some 10 research since this question came in, although it wasn't enough. 11 There will be some other sites listed that may help with this issue. 12 But in general -- first, I want to mention what I told him. I responded to 13 the person with the transit agency before I did my research, which is, 14 first of all, that the public rights of way is really the biggest remaining 15 challenge that we have -- for a lot of transit problems. 16 One resource that we gave in the first Web cast in the series is a 17 resource related to transit agencies. Even when the bus stops were under 18 the jurisdiction of the municipality -- the handout is not listed for our 19 Web cast today. But if you go to the archived Web cast on the ILRU Web 20 site, then you click on past or archived Web casts, and you go to the first 21 one in the series. It's called archives of Web casts. It's under 2007, 22 and it's the second one down. Click on that. The first material is this 23 handout about bus stops. So you can find that and look at it closely. 24 The lack of sidewalks, which was his main question, was another 25 problem. I said his eligibility approaches are consistent with the ADA. 9 1 If people don't have access to bus stops, that could trigger paratransit 2 eligibility. It would be better if we could provide the means to move 3 people under the six route system -- such as a good sidewalk. So I checked 4 with the U.S. Access Board. New rights of way projects include sidewalks 5 which is very helpful and directly addresses the question of the gentleman 6 that wrote me. It start with FHWA, which is the Federal Highway 7 Administration, that gives documents that include this policy. She also 8 pointed out that there's something called the complete street movement. 9 That is archived on the Web cast page. They are a movement to really 10 improve the street environment with good sidewalks, and they provide the 11 incentive for this regulation. Also, a deal is being developed and, also, 12 advocates can support local and state complete street efforts. I also 13 learned that they are addressing this. So people with disabilities and 14 their organizations should get behind it. State laws and various 15 ordinances have been passed for complete streets. There is a federal bill 16 for this, and the energy bill contained a sense of congress section. He 17 believes it was Section 1133 endorsing this complete streets concept. So 18 we have some tools. 19 I'm just going to go ahead and take the time to mention a few other 20 tools that the access board folks suggested to me. First of all, under 21 program access under Title 2, the Department of Justice has noted that 22 sidewalks and the clearing of snow from sidewalks and the connecting of 23 sidewalks with curb ramps might be necessary to provide program access. At 24 least a high priority regulations -- and very much including transit sites 25 such as bus stops. Also, where sidewalks are not provided and pedestrians 10 1 use can be assumed, such as places where there's a walk to school 2 requirement within a certain distance or the presence of a bus line, then 3 local jurisdictions may need to alter their policies, practices, and 4 procedures under the ADA policy requirement to permit roadway use by 5 pedestrians in order to achieve program access. Safer routes to school is 6 another resource. That's a federally funded program. A key obstacle is 7 practice of requiring a (inaudible) to pay for sidewalks -- where the 8 sidewalk would go down the street. They were often required to pay for 9 sidewalks where, by contrast, the roadway access is regulated with -- via 10 grants to the public transportation. This is one of the obstacles that we 11 face. It would really be good, in general, to move this area forward for 12 independent living centers and other disability organizations and 13 disability advocates to make more filings, to bring legal advocacy 14 litigation, et cetera, based on excess to the public right of way. It 15 would be helpful to have carefully thought through precedence to buttress 16 these requirements. 17 The other thing is that, for example, the Department of Justice has 18 stated that can be used to extend the requirements of the law. For 19 example, if there's no sidewalks, ambulatory vehicles may use the grass -- 20 or when visible, only pedestrian signals, but there's no audible for use by 21 pedestrians with low vision or blindness. That creates a discrepancy, and 22 perhaps that can be a basis for challenge -- digression on all that second 23 eligibility category. 24 I want to get back to the third category and then take some of your 25 questions. The third category is anyone with a disability cannot travel to 11 1 or from the fixed route stops or stations. It could be that stops or 2 stations are too far for them to travel, or it could be a weather related 3 reason -- for example, much of the year in a really cold weather city. It 4 could be architectural barriers, such as a lack of curb ramps or sidewalks 5 or construction. It could be over environmental issues such as steep 6 hills; or for someone with a vision disability, there could be many 7 intersections which could not be easy to navigate. These are all eligible 8 under this category. 9 This category in the ADA talks about people not being able to use the 10 fixed route system if a disability prevents them from using it. That has 11 to be correctly interpreted. If your disability prevents you from using 12 the bus, that does not mean it's impossible. In other words, we don't make 13 the person keel over and then measure how far they got. It's not that 14 degree of disability. But on the other hand, it's not for people where the 15 bus is inconvenient. To take the bus system, you do need to be out in the 16 weather sometimes. The vehicle does not come to the door. It may take a 17 little longer to get to the bus stop. The bus and the train are not 18 convenient for anybody sometimes. A reasonable person test that was 19 confirmed in the ninth circuit in 2003 -- what would a reasonable person 20 say about whether a person with a disability should be expected to go out 21 and wait for the bus stop and use this system? Is it a reasonable effort? 22 Is it a reasonable risk? Each of these decisions have to be weighed. 23 There isn't a quickie checklist. It's really a case-by-case evaluation 24 done with good judgment, which is something that, of course, pervades so 25 much of the ADA. 12 1 The other thing I wanted to say about the categories, again, is that a 2 lot of factors have broadened them. A blind person who has mobility 3 training to reach a particular destination and, thus, is not eligible under 4 Category 1 might still encounter barriers, and that moves them to Category 5 3. If the service area has corridors that are three quarters of a mile 6 wide but a paratransit user can't go that far, they could be eligible due 7 to that reason. A lot of examples go back to the essential question which 8 is whether or not a person can use this system. 9 I'm back on the DREDF ADA outline now and after the category, going 10 into a section called types of eligibility. The ADA recognizes that 11 eligibility may vary depending on the trip. It's possible to use the 12 six-route service for one trip and not others. The kinds of eligibility 13 can include unconditional eligibility, which means all trips when it's not 14 reasonable for a person to use the six-route system under any 15 circumstances, regardless of weather or how far the bus stop is. 16 Another category is conditional. This is called trip eligibility, and 17 this type -- some trips are taken on a six-route system and others on 18 paratransit. The ADA allows for temporary eligibility. Under trip 19 eligibility it might depend on how many blocks a person can go or the 20 weather. 21 I want to move to the material called Number 5, ADA paratransit 22 eligibility -- how to make your case -- as sort of a how-to guide for 23 individuals who are going to undergo the whole eligibility process. It 24 starts by going over some things I already talked about. What I want to 25 focus on is it gives some best practices that might be helpful for people 13 1 to know about, for example, if you go through Steps 1, 2, and 3. Under 2 Step 1, it talks about how you may go through this process. You may want 3 to gather detailed information and documentation that explains why you're 4 eligible. You should consider your potential travel throughout the entire 5 bus or train system during all seasons, not just looking at the bus stop in 6 your immediate neighborhood or those you normally use. You may get to the 7 bus stop by your house but not the one by your work. If we move down into 8 step two, it talks about preparation. And part of preparation is letting 9 the process know about any secondary disabilities you have, such as 10 disorientation or fatigue. It may not always occur to people to mention 11 those things. They may just say, well, I'm a wheelchair user, but they 12 don't include secondary conditions. They may be as relevant to their 13 eligibility as well as their primary eligibility. 14 Step 3 -- I wanted to mention we have often been asked at DREDF, do we 15 approve or agree? My agency is going to do a functional assessment. Is 16 that against the ADA? It's certainly not against the ADA. But asking us 17 if we agree with that -- after a lot of thought and investigation, what we 18 came up with is that the most important thing is whether in doing these 19 things your travel agency is acting consistently with transit in the 20 industry. Because there is such a thing as doing these things properly. 21 The National Transit Institute teaches a course on paratransit eligibility 22 which is very good, and it's free to people from transit agencies. I 23 believe the NTI may be working these courses now, but hopefully, there 24 still is this course. It's free for people from transit agencies, but 25 others can go to it, too. I went to it, and it's very interesting. It's 14 1 very helpful and really the best source of what I think are the best 2 practices in the industry. For example of not a best practice, we have 3 heard of agencies that, for example, never find any visually impaired 4 people eligible just as a flat blanket decision, which is a good example of 5 something that is not consistent with the best practices in the industry. 6 Some of the things I said about secondary conditions is another example of 7 a best practice, but those things would be considered. Another thing that 8 comes up -- and this is listed further on in Step 3. If you use a 9 disability device, you may need to have to explain -- heat or cold, snow or 10 ice, fatigue, adequate control of the wheelchair. These are all things 11 that can affect eligibility. Somebody shared with DREDF who had cerebral 12 palsy. He had no use of his arms and very little stamina. He was 13 exhausted most of the time. He was rejected from eligibility because he 14 uses a power chair. If he showed up in a manual wheelchair, he would have 15 been accepted. It is deemed that cases like him are not eligible because 16 the power wheelchair would enable them to get to a bus stop a few blocks 17 away. There is the issue of inclement weather. Best practices would look 18 at all these issues. 19 The next point of a functional assessment is not accepting one of your 20 disabling conditions. Mention it. Here's another example of best 21 practices. It is the transit's agency's responsibility to know that some 22 disabilities cannot be evaluated by a functional assessment. For example, 23 seizure disorders and variable conditions cannot be assessed. These 24 disabilities apply. It will come out as non-eligible, but that doesn't 25 mean that's accurate in their case. 15 1 Step 4, if you need it. 2 Step 5, appeal it if you're denied eligibility. First of all, you 3 shouldn't wait too long because there could be a time limit. Transit 4 agencies are not required to make a time limit, but they are allowed to 5 specify that someone must do their appeal within 60 days of the original 6 decision. Appeals are very important because a lot of people don't appeal 7 because they think they're going to get the same decision again. But they 8 really should appeal because a lot of times denials of eligibility are over 9 turned on appeal. What was formally a catch-22 -- there really is a good 10 way out of it, and I want people to know about it -- if a person has been 11 denied eligibility and they did not appeal and there is a deadline by their 12 transit agency and they can't appeal anymore. FTA has not been interested 13 in these complaints unless the person appealed and was rejected under 14 appeal. There is a good way out of it, and it is important that disability 15 advocates and people with disabilities understand that all they need to do 16 is reply for paratransit eligibility. You can reapply any time. No one is 17 allowed to limit your reapplication. So you can reapply if you're 18 accepted. 19 This handout, then, goes through how you can enforce your rights if 20 there's a problem. I'll just mention in terms of filing a compliant with 21 FTA about eligibility. FTA, the Federal Transit Administration, has been 22 more interested in pursuing violations of the eligibility process than in 23 -- such as there were no appeals, then second guessing a content of a 24 appeal decision. Even though that is something of an obstacle, it is very 25 important for FTA to hear about problems with eligibility denial, 16 1 especially serious problems and patterns. For example, if it appears that 2 a transit agency is denying someone from using a wheelchair, it's important 3 to complain to FTA. These complaints to FTA may be particularly effective 4 if there's important information that was disregarded by the transit agency 5 or if multiple complaints are submitted by several people against the same 6 transit agency, particularly if they're submitted together. 7 Now let us go back to -- actually I just want to mention some other 8 best practices and eligibility. It is important that transit agencies in 9 assessing transit eligibility drop and use a comprehensive skill and task 10 risk. Now that is Handout 6 which you can download. And you'll see that 11 using something like this is listing the things that the transit agency 12 should be considering. To do eligibility correctly, they need to consider 13 the person's functional ability. By the way, some of these points are also 14 given on the outline. If you go back to the outline under the section on 15 types of eligibility, it picks up where I am. Transit agencies should be 16 considering the individual's functional ability, the accessibility of the 17 transit system and stations and stops, the different types of barriers from 18 streets of intersections to poor sidewalks, curb cuts and the environmental 19 conditions in your area, such as the local weather -- to use that list 20 every single time every time eligibility is assessed. This handout is an 21 example only because your particular locale should be by that area's 22 conditions. The person needs to be able to perform the tasks under a 23 variety of environmental conditions -- low light, snow, light, rain, 24 humidity, handle unexpected situations. If any of these things are not 25 something the person can do due to their disability, that would render them 17 1 eligible. On the other side of the list, there are physical cognitive and 2 skills needed to perform those tasks, such as walking -- speed and 3 endurance. For a person with an intellectual disability, can they orient 4 themselves? Do they have the ability to stay on task, the ability to seek 5 and act on direction? Then there's some questions for people with sensory 6 disabilities. 7 Back to the outline -- includes people with secondary conditions. For 8 example, a person may be assessed in the following way. If they live up in 9 the northeast, it's going to affect summer versus winter, or if a person 10 needs to get to a two blocks away bus stop versus looking at a final 11 destination that is further away. At the end of the process, they should 12 come out with a precise statement of what the conditions are affecting that 13 person's eligibility. For example, instead of just saying you're Category 14 3 eligible, it would be better if they said -- and again, this is just an 15 example -- you are eligible for practice transit if you must travel more 16 than three blocks to get to the bus stops. That is a good example or 17 assessment of what the person can do -- if you must travel over steep 18 terrain to a bus stop or if you must travel over snow and ice that prevents 19 you from getting to the stop. This is what hopefully comes out at the end. 20 And it needs to consider potential travel throughout the entire transit 21 system during off seasons. A problem that we have often run into is that 22 applicants often won't put everything on their applications. Whoever is 23 reviewing the application from the transit side must have the checklist in 24 the back of their mind -- say to themselves, for that type of disability, I 25 need to have thought through everything on this list for that person. 18 1 That's the transit side. Then from the advocate side, you need to think 2 everything you or the person you're advocating for will face when using the 3 transit system. A lot of agencies do a percentage of trip eligibility for 4 frequent trips or subscription trip requests. Under most circumstances, if 5 trip eligibility is done properly, it will be about 30 to 40 percent of 6 people who are conditionally eligible for trip-by-trip type eligibility. 7 I'm trying to move -- part of the motivation for really going into all 8 of this is that we've seen problems that travel agencies don't. If travel 9 agencies are serious about doing travel eligibility, they get into a 10 situation where everyone is eligible. Then they're grasping at straws to 11 deny people asking questions like, have you ever used the bus, which is not 12 a good basis to deny people paratransit eligibility. Then people start to 13 be denied inappropriately. So it's better to get serious about identifying 14 what people can and cannot do. Another related point is that it's very 15 damaging to do conditional eligibility partway, for example, if the transit 16 agency says people can't deal with harsh weather and hills. So we'll only 17 identify people -- excuse me, I misspoke. A transit agency may feel that 18 they can't figure out the weather -- the hills and the route -- they're too 19 complicated. So they'll only identify whether the people can board the bus 20 or not. That's half way. Or if a transit agency says we'll give seasonal 21 eligibility, but we can't do all the other evaluations of the paths of 22 travel. Or they'll say, you're eligible from November to April but not 23 otherwise. It may seem easier, but there was always inevitably distance 24 issues or curb cuts. There's going to be warmer days in the fall or 25 spring. And there's also going to be cooler days that are in the months 19 1 called summer. So it's really a better practice to thoroughly identify the 2 conditions under which the people cannot use the bus route system. 3 Then we get back to the outline, and we get to this well done part of 4 the ADA that at least one associate may ride with the paratransit eligible 5 person. Transit agencies are required to allow additional riders if the 6 person needs them -- excuse me -- if they need to travel with the person to 7 the same destination, as long as they don't use space for other riders with 8 disabilities. If the person with a disability must travel with a personal 9 attendant, that attendant will not count as the one associate. Associates 10 and companion will pay the same fare that the individual does. But if that 11 person is needing to help that individual, then that person doesn't. 12 Jacquie, how much time do we have left? 13 >> Jacquie: We have some time, but we have a lot of questions. 14 >> Marilyn: I think we should take a few questions, and then I 15 hope to have a chance to do a little bit more on the eligibility 16 determination process. 17 >> Jacquie: Some of these will probably bring out about 18 eligibility determination because that's what they're mostly about. 19 The first one is, if you're denied eligibility and you appeal the 20 denial, do you have to wait a certain amount of time to reapply or can you 21 reapply right away? 22 >> Marilyn: You can reapply any time. 23 >> Jacquie: If seizure disorders can't be identified through a 24 functional assessment feature, then how do they determine the person's 25 eligibility? 20 1 >> Marilyn: For disabilities that cannot be assessed via a 2 functional development -- working with professionals that are working with 3 people with disabilities, whether it's doctors or other therapists and so 4 forth, could be utilized. Documents that the would-be writer would wish to 5 submit from their medical record or other documents that describe the 6 obstacles they face in using the fixer-up system could be submitted. 7 There's a variety of ways that those things can be assessed -- that they 8 need to be a little more hands on, a little more investigatory. The 9 transit agency may need to spend a little more time and check more sources 10 to think about those disabilities accurately. 11 >> Jacquie: Once a person is approved for transit, how long is 12 the approval good for and will the person have to continue to submit 13 disability reports? 14 >> Marilyn: It could be for good if the transit agency handles 15 it that way and does not require assessments. But the ADA requires people 16 to assess people periodically, and however they decide to assess people is 17 how often you have to go through a reassessment. 18 >> Jacquie: How is the FTA dealing with trip-by-trip issues? I 19 have a client who can use fixed route in certain parts of the city but not 20 others due to accessibility problems. 21 >> Marilyn: Well, again best practices would look very closely 22 at exactly what the specific obstacles are where. Just to give you the 23 model system, it's widely acknowledged that the pioneer here is the city of 24 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; and they have developed a system where they 25 actually assess every path of travel that the person is going to need. Of 21 1 course, after they're doing it for a while, most of these paths of travel 2 have been assessed. So they don't have to go out and do it again. They 3 keep records. But they look at architectural issues. they look at 4 obstacles that affect visual impairments. That's a good example of being 5 very thorough. But if they are not ready yet to be thorough, then they 6 shouldn't use their failure to investigate to deny eligibility. They may 7 need to simply allow the trips that are alleged to have obstacles. 8 >> Jacquie: This is similar from Michigan. Are there cases in 9 which a person might be denied paratransit during the summer but given it 10 during the winter where there is snow or ice that must be navigated by a 11 person using crutches? 12 >> Marilyn: Absolutely. Yes. This is a good example of the 13 kind of person who needs conditional or trip-by-trip eligibility. But it's 14 important that it not be a rigid thing. In other words, we don't just say 15 in the winter months your eligible for paratransit, and in the summer 16 months you're not. It's not a blanket month. It's not useful because 17 inevitably there's going to be an April day that's still got bad weather or 18 a March day that doesn't. So a travel agency that just does that flat 19 winter/summer thing is going to have some days where they give paratransit 20 when the person could take the fixed route system or days where they 21 cannot. So it should be more specific. 22 >> Jacquie: It sounds like it's that summer/winter thing for 23 that guy. This one is from Atlanta. Can a person be eligible for 24 paratransit based on a psychiatric disability? I have post-traumatic 25 stress disorder related to being the victim of a violent aggravated crime 22 1 that occurred at a bus stop. I can physically get at the bus stop and 2 wait, but I can't mentally handle being there. 3 >> Marilyn: This is the perfect example that cannot be assessed 4 through a functional assessment. That could be the basis, yes. We're not 5 encouraging fraud -- for the world to simply state they have this 6 disability. Transit agencies have a legitimate interest in ascertaining. 7 There are ways to ascertain, perhaps through doctors, or other therapists, 8 or other medical professionals, or documents from those parties, or other 9 kinds of documents. And there may be other ways to assess this. The 10 transit agency should look carefully at what the reasonable person's tests 11 would dictate the individual could be expected to do. 12 >> Jacquie: The DOT regulations allow each transit provider to 13 set up it's own system of setting up ADA eligibility. Doesn't that provide 14 an awful lot of leeway of abuse by transit riders? 15 >> Marilyn: Perhaps so. But I think the ADA takes the right 16 approach here. Many things in the ADA provide a lot of discretion. In 17 other words, when is the request for a modification of policy to a public 18 accommodation -- when is it a legitimate request that the ADA permit or 19 not? Inevitably, a civil rights law has to provide these general rules 20 that can be interpreted locally. All civil rights laws give these general 21 concepts. We think that DOT did not get prescriptive in the beginning 22 because ADA was a new animal, and we didn't know exactly how it would work 23 out. I think we did a pretty good job given that. By and large, this 24 regulation has proven to work pretty well. However, given all that, 25 perhaps in the sense of the ADA, I don't deny that there is abuse. And 23 1 there's plenty of transit agencies doing a good or great job. And there's 2 just as many who are doing a poor job and are not following best practice 3 and are denying people who shouldn't be denied. That is why we are so 4 insistent that travel agencies should follow best practices in the 5 industry. 6 >> Jacquie: This is from a transit provider in Louisiana. We 7 generally do not give blanket approval to people with seizure disorders. 8 Paratransit does not seem to provide this. Is that faulty on our part? 9 >> Marilyn: I think it is to a certain degree. The opposite is 10 also not true. I do not think, for example, that people teaching the 11 eligibility course would say that anybody with a seizure disorder should be 12 automatically eligible for all their rides. It depends on what is the 13 pattern the seizures have? What is the severity? What characteristics do 14 they have? What assistance do they need? Are they direct threats? Just 15 like anyone else, you have to assess the extent to which their disability 16 acts -- their ability to use the fixed route system and then think about 17 the reasonable person test. People with seizure disorders that are 18 completely controlled through medication may not have eligibility. So 19 again, it's case-by-case which is not necessarily the easiest answer in the 20 world because it means you have to do a little bit more work and thinking. 21 But at least, it's useful to hear this, to know that the blanket rule is 22 not the right thing nor is it the opposite. 23 >> Jacquie: This is the last one, and maybe this will take you 24 into the rest of your discussion that you wanted to get to. When 25 determining paratransit eligibility, how does one determine a pattern or 24 1 how can a person show a need for accommodations? 2 >> Marilyn: Well, the ADA paratransit 'how to make your case' 3 addresses this in one of those steps. And again, it's always possible this 4 question was submitted before. It's a good question. I think it's Steps 2 5 and 3 -- particularly Step 2. There's all kinds of documentation that the 6 person can use, for example, a detailed statement from a disability service 7 provider, like an independent living specialist, or a rehab counselor, or a 8 travel trainer, a detailed statement from a medical professional, a journal 9 or log -- in other words, just a diary that you keep that documents the 10 impact of travel on your disability, health energy stamina, etc. It can be 11 very detailed. You can say: On a certain day, I went four blocks to a 12 store, but on the way I needed to rest. Then when I got home, I had to 13 rest an hour before I made dinner. Just show a log showing that you 14 deserve partial or full care transit eligibility. 15 Another thing you can bring -- and this is also in the handout -- is a 16 detailed listing of the access barriers that prevent you from getting to 17 the bus stop or train station -- that there's no sidewalks or no pedestrian 18 signals and you're visually impaired, so you don't know where to go -- lack 19 of snow removal. All these things can show the basis of determination. 20 Really any other information -- and you can read the paragraph. Like on 21 cold days, I would not have the energy to get on my coat and hat and scarf, 22 but I don't need that in the summer. There's all kinds of conditions that 23 you have. You can simply document. 24 Now, it's true that the transit agency is allowed to investigate, but 25 there's a realistic limit on this. If you can, combine a personal log with 25 1 a medical documentation assessing whether or not these barriers are really 2 obstacles for you to determine eligibility. To be fair, there's an 3 opposite case which is we all know that there are times when a doctor will 4 sign anything or whatever, and they'll say, no, you can't use the bus when 5 maybe you can. So the transit agency has a legitimate interest in 6 searching a little further. For example, it should not simply be 7 disbelieved if the doctor says something, and it should not be disbelieved 8 if you write a log. It can be looked into, but I think you can err on both 9 sides. Can the person ride the six-route system -- yes/no. That's a more 10 helpful question. Are there any other questions, Jacquie? 11 >> Jacquie: No. That's it for now. 12 >> Marilyn: Looking to the practice transit eligibility 13 process, there's some very basic things such as all information about the 14 process must be available and acceptable format. If you have to pay for 15 transportation to get to the assessment, that might be a hidden fee. The 16 transit agency should provide for you to get there. It's important to 17 really think about them. 18 The ADA regulation says if by 21 days after submission of the 19 completed application they have not determined eligibility, the applicant 20 must be made eligible and provided service until they deny the application. 21 The transit agency determination of agency must be documented in writing 22 stating the reasons in detail why the application was denied in case they 23 want to make an appeal. 24 There's the issue of visitors. Visitors are given eligibility under 25 the ADA, and a lot of paratransit systems do not deal with visitors. Many 26 1 of them are unaware of visitor requirements and don't deal with them. The 2 way visitors are dealt with in this regulation is that any visitor 3 presenting documentation that they are eligible from another city must be 4 treated as eligible. It's 21 days per year for a 365 day period. Let's 5 say somebody does not have ADA paratransit eligibility card from where they 6 came from. Let's say they came from a town -- it would be eligible, but 7 there's no way to get it. If the visitor does not have a card, then the 8 transit agency is required to -- if the disability is not apparent, then 9 they must provide paratransit for that 21 days. That 21 days hooks into 10 the same 21 days of eligibility of a resident. If somebody has moved 11 somewhere, they can be assessed or they can get visitor eligibility; but 12 then they should apply for eligibility. And once their eligibility is up 13 21 days later, hopefully their permanent eligibility will kick in. 14 Now, there have been problems with this in the form of assessments of 15 eligibility taking longer. For example, a person may have to develop an 16 application and then submit it and that it's 21 days after that. Once it's 17 not complete -- a better practice might be for systems that go over the 18 application at the interview if they do an in-person interview. Then that 19 starts the 21 days if the person for eligibility assessment for eligibility 20 takes longer than 21 days. 21 The next section talks about the appeal, and you'll see that the 22 appeals process must include an opportunity to be heard and to present 23 information and arguments. Transit agencies may require that people file 24 within 60 days for an appeal. The final decision must be made by someone 25 not involved with the eligibility process. The transit agency is not 27 1 required to provide paratransit service to the person during the 2 determination of the appeal. But if they have not made a decision within 3 30 days of the completion of the appeal, service must be provided until a 4 decision is made. 5 There's one other point I want to raise. One other thing about 6 visitors that's not really related to the regulation but relates a lot to 7 whether visitors can use the system is when you visit a city, you often say 8 this issue of how do you call paratransit? Because it can be a research 9 job to figure out how they're listed and what is their name. One useful 10 thing is the project action will find out for people who they should call 11 if they're going to another city. They're 800 number is (800) 659-6428. 12 If you live in one city and you're going to visit another, they'll help you 13 find out what the telephone number is to ask the transit agency to give you 14 visitor eligibility. The 511 on your phone often has information about 15 transit and hopefully about access transit. 16 The other section in here that is in a way related to eligibility -- 17 missing trips or no-shows. We went over this in a previous Web cast. Are 18 there any questions, Jacquie? 19 >> Jacquie: I haven't had anything else come in. If there's 20 anything you want to cover quickly, feel free. 21 >> Marilyn: Well, we can simply mention that there are a lot of 22 issues around no-shows. No-shows -- of course, a transit agency is allowed 23 to suspend a person's eligibility for a reasonable amount of time if they 24 miss a lot of trips. But trips missed beyond their control are not a legal 25 basis for determining that a pattern or practice exists. There's a lot of 28 1 important FTA regulations about this. Transit agencies are not allowed to 2 cancel a person's return trip if they're a no-show on the outbound. It 3 needs to be not an extensive length of time that the transit agency can 4 call the person if they no-showed to see what's happening because many 5 times no-shows come from coordination problems with the social service 6 agency who is having their clients be given paratransit by the transit 7 agency. Closer coordination with the transit agency can often get rid of 8 these no-shows. 9 It's also very important for transit agencies to assess no-shows not 10 too aggressively. Three no-shows in a month that suspends after that could 11 be, in fact, inconsistent with the ADA, not really a pattern. FTA has 12 suggested that travel agencies consider the percentage. Because if you 13 ride every day than every week, you should be looking at the frequency. 14 >> Jacquie: Thanks so much, Marilyn. You always leave me 15 looking forward to the next one, which in this case is going to be March 26 16 when Marilyn will be back with us again for part IV of this series. Please 17 feel free to share the archives with your colleagues. They will be 18 available tomorrow at ilru.org, and please don't forget to complete the 19 evaluation on the Web page. Thanks again to National Institute on 20 Disablity and Rehabilitation Research, NIDRR, our sponsor today. Finally, 21 this Web cast would not be possible without the efforts of our Web cast 22 team, Rob Dickehuth and our captioner today, Daphne Baba. Join us next 23 Wednesday. Thanks again, Marilyn; and thanks everybody for joining us. 24 Have a dazzling day. 25