1 Managing Americans with Disabilities Act Accessibility Compliance in a Large City: What Others can Learn. >>>OPERATOR: Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the webcast on managing Americans with disability act disability compliance in a large city. Today's presentation is by Judy Babbitt. I'm Wendy Wilkinson with the DBTAC southwest ADA center. I'd like to recognize the sponsors of this program and review a couple technical details. Today's activity is funded by NIDRR -- NIDRR is the DBTAC southwest ADA center are the hosts for your program. Southwest DBTAC is one of ten centers funded by NIDRR to provide assistance 2 on the ADA. I encourage you to contact your center. If you have any questions, want training or information or any resource on the Americans with Disabilities Act. Just a couple technical things to go over before we get started. If you encounter problems during the webcast, call in for technical assistance. People are standing by at 713-520-0232. To submit your question, click on the e-mail button on your screen or e-mail your question directly to SWDBTAC@ ILRU.org. As a final note I hope many of you turning in are ADA coordinators and I want to call your attention to the 2009 national ADA symposium on revitalizing the ADA, held June 8th through 10th in Kansas City, Missouri. I will send 3 information on this but I want to tell coordinators that there is a special track for you and I encourage folks to attend the program or find out more about it. Again, I'll send out information shortly after this program about that. All right. At this time I'd like to introduce Judy Babbitt, tell you a little more about her. My pleasure to introduce her. I've worked with over the years on several initiatives. She's a (indiscernible) with the City of San Antonio for 30 years. She has extensive background and is a specialist in model disability access and universal sites -- historic sites. She is a compliance manager and director of the disability access office for the city of San Antonio. She's also in charge of planning and administering 4 a program which with city complies with the Americans with Disabilities Act. The office supports the 1983 City Council appointed disability act (indiscernible) and also provides technical assistance to cities, departments, and the private sector. Judy, thank you so much for being here today. I will now turn the program over to you. >>>MS. BABBITT: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with everybody this afternoon. I would like to first off say that -- would like everybody to remember that the opinions I register on the broadcast today are my opinions; they are not words of the City of San Antonio. So I think that forms a basis for a better discussion so that everybody knows that. I would like to go over 5 briefly the things I'd like to cover today and they may not be in exact order, depending on the questioning and the time we have available. First of all the history of the access office and organizational structure. Managing some of the relationships between stakeholders and the government and community -- that is a key element of any good program. The skills and experience necessary to staffing and office. The -- I have some strategies that I use and they were just -- they weren't thought out. They just happened, and I'd like to share some of those with you after 30 years of experience. These are things that have worked for me in my office. And we will also cover the transition plan 6 element because I know many of you will be working on transition plans or have done them and probably in completely ways than San Antonio has done them. With that in mind I'd like to begin with -- if everybody would review the functional diagram -- one of the exhibits you have available. The city of San Antonio established the disability office as a result of section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act. That tells you how long I've been here. I was hired to do community analysis. I was not hired -- there was no such thing as a ADA coordinator, or section 504 coordinator. Doing the job I had at that time people began -- the bureaucracy began to come to me. At that time the word was 7 handicapped. By ordnance we had to have that changed. Very interesting historical moment. If you could review that flowchart, the City, based on what they found that there were no statistics available and we were having this new law ahead of us, then assigned it to the planning department to handle the requirements of section 504. And we came together -- this is really a functional diagram, not an organizational chart. But it shows that the federal laws were what prompted the City Council and city manager to orchestrate -- because there was nobody else to do it and I had started collecting statistics, I was the lucky one. I drew the straw. And I would like to tell you a moment about 8 San Antonio's make up and the city organization. So what I say will make a little more sense. We have a City Council manager form of government. We have the city -- the City Council hires the city manager. They become city's chief administrator. The city of San Antonio has 12,000 employees and 37 departments who provide a wide range of services. We have in the city 7,000 -- almost 8,000 miles of sidewalks that we have surveyed and 60% of our sidewalks are missing or unusable. I would think that was comparable to most cities. 40% are usable but 30% of them are missing (indiscernible). We have 6700 bus stops, and we have 4400 of those that are not 9 accessible. Excuse me -- that are accessible. We have 203 stops that don't have -- that have bus -- cannot deploy a bus lift. We have a population of over a million and we have an estimated disabled population of 180,000. So I think that's comparable to any large city in terms of disability population. When we began this program, I knew nothing about disability rights. I was an activist, but not (indiscernible) at all. Having a disability didn't seem to matter one way or another. But the first step we took, which I think every city should take, is recognizing -- and I would encourage anybody who even applies to be a an accessibility coordinator for a city to recognize that this is not about 10 ADA compliance; it is about an institutional change. It is to be a catalyst that promotes significant change in an institution, that has got a lot of gaps in understanding and accepting that there is another minority out there that hasn't been included for 200 years. So the institution is not recognizing that. So if you lay around ADA on top of all the other requirements without integrating and making sure that it's universally accepted throughout the bureaucracy, it's bound to fail. The person in charge of it will fail and the compliance will be only because it's forced. But real institutional change takes understanding the bureaucracy and the institution that you're trying to change. 11 With that said, it is important that the person who does this -- and this is how we began -- because I didn't know anything, and most coordinators who are hired may be perfectly capable people, but they don't know anything about the bureaucracy they're changing. We studied every department. We created separate files for each department so we knew their budget. We knew what their programs were, we knew what their individual problems were or where they thought they were. And that system works today. It is impossible to compromise with a department or work with a department closely unless you really know what their own problems are. For instance, you can go to a library system 12 and say "you've got to comply, get interpreters for every event, lower your stacks." But if you don't know what they go through with their budget and what their problems are already that might (indiscernible) to conform them to do what you want them to do. It's important to learn about the bureaucracy. The other key element here, besides just making institutional change, I would say that the one thing that will not lead to success or the one thing that will lead to success -- the one thing that will lead to success is having the political will to do it. If the city government does not have the political will to do, to make the changes or to integrate, to create more universal design of the program so they are 13 indeed inclusive, then you will fail. I mean, it is written in the wind that you will fail. And this program that we run, and many of the other successful city programs, have leadership at the top. They have management and council and mayor leadership that says -- that gives you, the individual trying to make this change -- in this case it's me because I'm talking -- gives you the ability to go forward and go in a horizontal way across all city departments and assist them in understanding what it is that you can help them with. And I always think of it as kind of inside/outside. You're the outside person that knows enough about their department to come in and say, okay, here's an issue. We have an issue and we 14 want -- I want to help you do it, but you have to help me understand what your problems are internally that cause you not to be able to implement this new policy. For instance, changing forms. Well, we can't change a form for some reason. You need to be able to understand what the form is about, what they're trying to do, to say -- okay, well it isn't that we're not going to change the form; it's how are we going to change this form. So I think political will, having political support is important. If an individual in this role has to go through several layers of a bureaucracy to get to a point where they have any impact at all, their -- the initial response is so diluted that it is impossible to make any kind of 15 change very effective. So I think anybody who wishes to do a good job, not only do you need outside support but you need to be able to go horizontal across the bureaucracy or institution and not just vertical. Let's stop here for a minute, Wendy, and see if we have some questions. >>>OPERATOR: Yes, Judy. When you mentioned your situation with sidewalks and trying to develop some kind of program for installing curb ramps we got several questions in about if you could describe your sidewalk building and maintenance program and how you coordinate that with public transportation. >>>MS. BABBITT: Well, that's a hundred percent jackpot question. That's an on 16 going -- you know, that's one of those things that is a recycable issue. They -- you never resolve anything. The whole environment changes. You're continuing to change. Right now we -- the city does not run the public transportation system. It is a special district. And so working with that special district it is called via -- metropolitan transportation authority. We're developing a sidewalk implementation plan that is addressing those -- that question, How are we going to develop a comprehensive sidewalk plan and fund it? And what we're fortunate to have is an excellent and just-completed sidewalk inventory of all of our sidewalks. So we now know -- and this is a geographic-based 17 information system, which means it's all mapped. So we know exactly which corners have curb ramps. We know which areas have no or broken sidewalks or blocked sidewalks. Using that new database as a vehicle we are creating a new program -- a whole new transition plan that will be phased in. Coordinating with via, is as I said, an on going issue. The bus pads, where there are no curbs, the bus ramps can't deploy so they can't pick up passengers, even if there is a sidewalk. There's no curb they can't deploy the lift. So that's a huge problem. I'm not really answering the question but I'm saying hopefully within the next year we will have some answers and we will have a program to do that. And of 18 course, our intent is to bus stop areas first. They put in the pads. The responsibility is to put the ramps to the sidewalks to them. We are now adding ramps, even if there are no sidewalks because many people can still get to the bus stop if there's a ramp and I think we've all had that experience, going across the grass to get to a bus stop. So I -- that's a very -- probably shallow answer, but that's the only one I have right now. >>>OPERATOR: Thank you. Another person is asking how you respond to individual requests -- for instance, in someone's neighborhood or if someone wants access to a business or something like that when they make a special request that, you know, a 19 sidewalk is inaccessible -- does your plan also address that? >>>MS. BABBITT: Yes, our plan will. And we've had -- I'm not saying that -- I didn't say that we haven't done anything. It is that the things that we've been doing with sidewalks are really within the last 10 years. I think every City had an original ADA concept. In 1990 we were -- just went out there and did what we were supposed to but people were not considering sidewalks as part of the ADA at that time. It was physical facilities, buildings. So we have transition plans for our buildings which we completed in '94 and to this day they're being implemented. Sidewalks are new transition plans. So one of the key elements is in 20 our plan. In fact it's one of our goals, is to provide solutions to common, resolvable ADA complaints in partnership with our disability access advisory committee. What that means is we have what we call, like, -- not exactly emergencies but short-term complaints that should not have to go on a list and get fixed in five years. And part of this plan is to create a targeted response for these kind of citizen requests and delivery and to set up a fund so that it can be a responsive fund, different from a sidewalk program where you go in and lay blocks and blocks of sidewalk. This would take care of that occasional ramp or block sidewalk or 60 feet of sidewalk to fill a gap to a bus stop. It is not intended to help citizens at their own 21 homes. That is not the intent. This is for public right-of-way. This is what our plan addresses, public right-of-way. This is not to build a ramp for a homeowner that can't get to the sidewalk from their driveway. This is for public right-of-way corners, crosswalks. And I think this is where the development of this plan, this new plan -- there are six goals and we're working on it as we speak. This morning we had a meeting with the goal leaders. A lot of the impetus from this plan came from outside of the City from consumers -- one in particular, officer James Lawson who is just who I consider my outside partner. He is a fantastic help and came in and pointed out, you know, you sit in your own 22 chair all the time. And somebody doesn't say, you know what? Your chair only has three legs. Well, it's been working but it needs another leg. That's what he did -- he pointed out that, you've done a lot of good sidewalks, but they're hit and miss, and you need to get -- (indiscernible) would be really good. He's been helpful with research and when I'm stuck I can call him. He's not the only one, but he is the one that came from the outside and pointed it out, not only to me and to the City but to some of the other jurisdictions. >>>OPERATOR: That was helpful and I'm going to ask you one more question that came in before (indiscernible). I promise it's not about sidewalks. 23 This comes from Louisiana. They're interested in understanding how you were able to get the clinical support and funding to become an integral part of the City. They don't have a lot of infrastructure there. The closest thing they have is the mayor citizens council on disabilities. Are there any quick tips you could pass along to him? >>>MS. BABBITT: Yes, I think so. I'm assuming this is (indiscernible). >>>OPERATOR: Looks like it may come from a new coordinator -- ADA coordinator. >>>MS. BABBITT: The importance is to meet with management and ask them what -- you know, what you feel the focus is -- I'm 24 introducing my own example -- you feel is to remember that ADA is not within one department only; it is -- if we think of civil rights, it doesn't just cover sidewalks, and it doesn't just cover housing. It covers anything that anybody wants to do within the City government. And so if that individual can set up a meeting and talk about the totality of what needs to happen, then the whole system needs to change or maybe adapt -- not necessarily change but adapt to change. Sometimes it's those departments that can help make the biggest change for them. I think it's important to meet with them and ask them what your boundaries -- and determine what your boundaries are together if you 25 have to. Whether it is the person that hired you, if you have been hired by a department, does that department expect you only to do work for that department? If that were true, then every single department would need a full-time ADA coordinator. What we did was to develop a plan that said, okay, each department will have somebody that will be -- can relate to my office or to me initially to be the ADA person in that department. And to this day, that still works. So a quick answer might be to develop a little plan and go to the management with that plan and say, okay, here's what I'd like to do. I'd like to develop a team of the departments. If you lay out something it's much better 26 than asking them to lay it out because they may say, well, we just want you to take complaints. But though I take complaints, I always try to use them to make a viable change in the organization. >>>OPERATOR: Okay, thank you, Judy. Why don't you move into your presentation and I'll hold the questions until after the next section. >>>MS. BABBITT: Okay. Since we've been talking about transition plans, I think it might be interesting to go through that a little bit. I would like to interject here that a City -- because I'm a studier of cities as a planner. That's my education. Systemic change is like trying to get your family to recycle when they never recycled. It's sort of like that. 27 Once you get started -- once you get it done, it's done. The goal of what we hope Americans cities is doing is to get -- create a universal system with everything we do so that we don't have to layer ADA on top of each architectural design, each program, each policy, and say "Oh, my we didn't remember ADA." So now we added on and it looks funny -- it's a whole other box on the side. That's not what we want. We want to be included. So with that in mind, when we start talking about transition plans, I mean they go on all the time -- start somewhere and you end up in another place and hopefully a better place. But if you're doing a better transition plan according to the rule, you have to assess 28 the problems, and then you have to develop a plan to remove those problems, and then you have to do something about finding the money to do it. Simplest way to think of a transition plan, to me, is to use three words -- one is survey, plan, and act. It's as simple as that. You can't have a transition plan unless you go through all three steps. And we did a transition plan in 1994 -- actually 1992. It took us two years where we surveyed physically every single city building. That was about 520 buildings. We then created a plan -- and I mean, we had each department survey their own building. And this is another place where if the departments have ownership in what is going on 29 with ADA, you suddenly find you have more advocates out there than you know because they now own it. It's their responsibility, they helped developed survey (indiscernible). They provided the data, so they want to see what happens. They want to make those corrections. And that happens whether you're doing a policy with a library, again, or the health department. If they own it, then it will be institutionalized. But back to this transition plan. So after we surveyed these buildings, then we put some priorities to the buildings we wanted to do first, and we -- and the priorities were based on who used the building, did a lot of citizens use it or was it a single-use building? What was the plan 30 for the building? And it was based mostly on usage and« the future plan of the building. Then we prioritized the buildings based on criteria and we went to City Council and said, here's the plan. It's laid out. We want to start doing this. These are the priorities, and we're asking for your -- priorities and we're asking for your support. Back in '94 we got 5 million dollars to begin to implement. At that time that was 5 million dollars and it was -- it was from several funding sources. But that was (indiscernible). So that -- gathering, again, a group to prepare a transition plan -- there's no way one individual can do it. And this is why the network aspect is so important with any kind of transition plan. We've also done a 31 transition plan for our river walk. Any time you have a monumental environment like the river walk or all the city building, it's pretty daunting if you don't break it down into survey plan and act. I know many cities hire people to do all of their surveys. We hire somebody, a contractor, to do our sidewalk survey. But we use some volunteers to do it too. We use people who had automobiles. We used people with disabilities. Several people with disabilities. The contractor paid them 13 dollars an hour. They were interested and now they're most interested. And so that worked very well. But eventually you have to get down to the action. And there's no -- you cannot have a plan without the act part. And that's where the 32 political will to put aside the funds to do it -- and it may not be all at once. But if there's a phased process with funding -- and if you have a plan it's easier to go forward. Even to get grants, if you really have a plan. The other really good thing about a plan is when you have a serious complaint. The first thing that comes to mind or the request for information is (indiscernible) a transition plan. If you can produce a transition plan and show in good faith you are working towards something, the chances of communicating with whoever is having the problem with you are a lot -- are a lot -- much improved. So the river walk plan -- we're still working on the river walk plan. We did that in 33 1995. We hired a consultant to assess the river walk. We have one major plan left to do out of that plan. It doesn't go fast, I guarantee you, because other things come up. Just perhaps at the moment that are as important or more important. The role of the coordinator is to be able to balance. If there are 60 priorities, which problem do you solve first? And so I think that based on that, the transition plan becomes a very good vehicle because you have it as sort of a tool that you can use whenever you need it. Once you have it done, again, nobody could do a transition (indiscernible). I don't know if any City office has ever done a complete transition plan by themselves. The organization of our 34 current plan, which we're going back to the City management in June for an update report, involves six goal areas. We tried to make this very comprehensive. One of the goals is to create an inventory of all of the sidewalk improvements that we're making and when any are made so they'll be continuing updating inventory so that if we get extra money we know exactly where we can put it. Many cities, I know, have a problem with property owners blocking the sidewalks. One of our goals is to work with property owners in educating them about the need to maintain sidewalks, curbs, and driveways to ensure accessibility. I'm sure as many of you have your garbage pick up and people put their cans 35 on the street. That may not be bad when they do it, but if they do it three times a week, that could be three citizens that can't get down that sidewalk for that six hours the can is out there. So there's a huge need for -- I mean, we have some good sidewalks that are blocked all the time. So there's -- that's a big goal area for us in our transition plan. So that's sort of covers transition plans, I think. Do we have some questions? >>>OPERATOR: (No audio). Judy? I apologize. We had a technical difficulty here. If you can participate, we do have a lot of questions about transition plans. And if I can start with, many folks are wondering how you're able, 36 given how technology is constantly changing and with directives from the access board, how you keep your plan dynamic and current with technology? >>>MS. BABBITT: Well, that's -- these questions are really good. Somebody's really paying attention to what's going on with the ADA, and that's excellent. I think again, this is -- the ADA has to change as the environment changes. It can't be a 1990 regulation and move forward in the world. And I think that's the point of this whole question, is what do we do with an old regulation in a new environment? And, yes, there are a lot of new regulations -- and even we grab on to all the draft regulations, and we look at 37 them in the City of San Antonio -- my office -- one of my big responsibilities is to keep up with the regulations and immediately begin adapting them to what we do already. It's easy to pass the regulation around but if you don't impose it to fit what they're doing already, again, to me, an ADA coordinator is not doing their job. They need to be right in there saying, "Okay. Here's the new regulation. I know what we're doing now. And if I don't know I'll learn, but I want to meet with you." And say, "this looks like we could do this. It's a better way to do curb ramps. It's a better way to create the texture on our curb ramps. We're not doing it now. How hard would this be? Let's do a pilot program and see what the differences are in 38 the cost. Let's see --" and so we try out. We really do experiment. This is where this network comes in. I'm personally very interested in the technology of new sidewalk design and new fabrics -- you know, textures we can use on sidewalks. Sidewalk design. And so I'm a out-in-the-field kind of person. I'm out with the engineers looking at a test for a new truncated -- I'm not sure if you're familiar with a truncated dome. But it's a texture and looks like little bubbles. It's the new required texture on all curb ramps. It's called "truncated dome." And these are relatively new. And so the people in the vender world, the people who create these, the companies, are coming out with new styles, new fabrics of ways to create 39 these truncated domes. And they come through my office and I get lots of calls about people who want to come in and talk about this new technology and what they have to sell. And, you know, if -- some of this is very expensive. And our questions always are -- so what I do is call together a group of people that work with these things all the time. I'm not the one to make that decision. I am not an engineer, and I'm not an attorney. I'm just a midwife of -- practicing all these years. In terms of technology, we have to make sure that the people that are going to install this are comfortable with it. And so we do -- we always ask that we have demonstrations. It's -- and we do the same 40 thing with all of the new technology. Our local code -- our local sidewalk code, we've taken some of the better pieces from design guidelines and created our own City sidewalk code. It is superior -- the widths are superior to the ADA and the Texas accessibility standard. We require 6 feet on all sidewalks on the larger streets, where the ADA all it still requires is 3 feet. So that is one example of -- all the regulations are minimums. And I'm always hopeful that we can exceed the minimum, and, you know, find a better place. Again, part of this is, you know, learning to jump on the opportunity when it's there. And maybe there's something that somebody else feels is more important, but if you 41 have an opportunity and you don't hit it at that moment, you may lose that opportunity and then you have to go back and it will be a lot more work. So I don't know if that helps, but -- >>>OPERATOR: I think that's helpful, Judy. Couple more questions on transition plans. How often do you ask different City departments to re-evaluate their accessibility? And do you cover the programs and services, or do you also address employment issues? >>>MS. BABBITT: I think because the way my personality works and the emphasis that I have -- I guess I have put on over the years on the hardscape, the mantle-built environment -- I never got into 42 employment -- I know some ADA offices are heavy into employment. Again, this speaks to the way our City has organized its ADA compliance. We work closely with the employment department -- it's called human resources department -- in the early days to make sure that, like, for instance, the interpreter -- we have what we call an accessibility statement on the bottom of our public meetings. We work closely with the human resources to make sure that the employment practices were inline and the application blanks. So this is one of those places where it's pretty well institutionalized. I'm not an employment specialist but early on we spent days and days -- hours working with them, helping them get things 43 in order so that they could be in compliance. So in the employment area, they did a transition, but I don't think that was really a plan. It was more of a group -- a task force that got together and it continues now whenever something comes up. Then you pull together as a task force. In terms of the other, like the building modification plan, that -- because it was done in 1992, we had to add -- we had added a new category to it and it's called plans under design and construction. So this is where we have a monthly report that comes to us from the maintenance -- from the individuals that maintain the list of all the new -- what we call capital projects, which are the projects done in buildings 44 and parks. This would be like a new renovation of a floor of a building. So that report will come to us and in that report -- it is a spread sheet. It will say improvements made -- they'll say new ADA bathrooms. May say complete ADA elevator installation. I'm sure you understand what I'm speaking of. Anyway, we create a quarterly-updated report. Again, this is because it's built into the institution now, and I think that is one success, is that we have this network throughout the city that we are available and, you know, these are the things we can help with. This office is not seen as the big, bad bear of ADA compliance, and we are -- I think we are viewed as a partner with all these 45 departments, because a lot -- many of our successes come because they have the ideas, and they have integrated into their own system the ADA requirements above and beyond what is really required. It's going that second level. >>>OPERATOR: Thank you. Just a couple more questions on transition plans. One is a question and also a request. Do you have any particular survey instruments that you use or that you've adapted, and would you be willing to share those with some new ADA coordinators? >>>MS. BABBITT: Yes and no. When we did our transition plan for buildings -- that was the first one we did. We called it the "building 46 access modification plan." That's what it's still called. There was no survey out there at all so we sort of created -- we created a survey for the buildings. Since then, there is on the department of justice website a pretty good building survey that would work for buildings, and we -- when people call us, want us to come out and survey a building, we always send them that form and ask them to -- you know, they can survey their own building. This is usually outsiders. Even our City departments, we send them that. We say we'll be glad to go over and help identify some of the solutions you've found. In answer to the question I think surveys are out there. That's for buildings. 47 We do have in our sidewalk area -- we have done our -- yes, I would say that we have an instrument or several. We have one that we use when you're driving, which is a much grander one -- I mean grand in scale. So it's not picking up a lot of details. It would provide details on, yes or no there's a sidewalk. Yes or no, there's a curb ramp. The sidewalk is blocked. But it doesn't go into the exactness of the problems on the sidewalk. This sidewalk isn't usable and it may just be one telephone pole but that makes the whole block unusable. So it goes in as unusable. We have that kind. We also have one that we developed for downtown where you're out and walking the streets, as though you're 48 looking for potholes, splits, and cracks. And I think we could share those. >>>OPERATOR: That would be wonderful. So what I will do is get those from you and perhaps we could post them on our website or if they're available on your website, we'll let folks know how to find those. >>>MS. BABBITT: That's a good idea, Wendy. I think we'll clean them up a little. We'll soap them down and shiny them up and get them to you and maybe you can post them for us. >>>OPERATOR: Thank you. I'm sure they'll be of great value to those people just starting ADA coordinator duties. I have a question from a ADA coordinator in Columbus, 49 Ohio. They're just starting and want to know how you engage the community in your transition planning. >>>MS. BABBITT: Well, again, every -- some much of what any ADA coordinator does is, I guess, you know, personality and perspective -- your perspective on what your role is. If you want to have the assistance from the outside, it is part of your -- it is as much a part of what your mission is as changing the institution. And it's very easy to get participation by having a meeting and listening to people, but to really engage the community is a different thing. And I don't think that -- we did -- we formed early on in the '80s -- we formed a disability access advisory committee. 50 And those individuals -- and to this day, I mean, we're using them in this plan. Each of my committee members is choosing one or more of my implementation plan goals and they're going to sit in and they're going to help. And that doesn't say they have anymore expertise than we do, but it's the outside giving some views. So -- but in talking about that a little bit, I have a disability. I use a wheelchair. But early on, you know, everybody was viewing people with disabilities as people in wheelchairs, because that's all -- I mean, that's -- I mean, if you look at the symbol, that's what the symbol is, which really isn't very accurate about people with disabilities. So I didn't intend -- intently go after people with disabilities and 51 say, look, we're doing this. I don't know. This just sort of happened, I guess. But this inside/outside partnership development is something that is a very fragile make-up. Because you can be -- you can really want people's cooperation and want their ideas, or you can say you want them and not really -- and not really be comfortable with that statement. And if you sit -- if you see yourself as outside and not one of a group, then you will become that, you'll be an outsider and they will maintain -- you will maintain them enough. What our role is is really to be us -- all of us. Not a them and a us. So I didn't make an intent to go to different groups. I mean, there was never -- it was more like, Oh, you know, 52 I'm having an issue here with some visual thing. I need -- and who do I know that's blind? I would -- that's how I work to date. Who's a good resource, who's a deaf person I can talk to about this issue? Because I'm not deaf and I don't get it. And I always remember the first time I met a deaf man, and he came up to visit with me. Of course I had no interpreter because first of all I hadn't thought of it. Second of all, I didn't know he was coming. But he sat down and started signing and I started yelling. It was very frustrating -- it was a good lesson. He looked at me like, what is wrong with you? Why are you yelling? It was a good lesson. And I continue to work with that man. He was a little strange -- I mean, this was not 53 about his disability. He was just an odd guy. And that's how I -- you know, that's how I survive. That is what makes this office so important, is that people, I think, feel comfortable calling me and asking me any kind of question. Lots of times I don't know. It's also good because people with disabilities, like all people, use the system. And so you have to become a student at understanding who's using the system and who really -- who really wants to participate, who wants to help -- who wants to help. And in a few minutes here, I'll -- in a few minutes here, I'd like to go over some of the things that have helped me through the years and I -- as I told Wendy yesterday -- I wrote these 54 down because I was -- somebody asked me how I did things. And I do things all the time and a lot of it is a personality. But you also have to have some (indiscernible). And my office has about the same resources it did in the early '90s. I think sharing the responsibility with all the departments is what's key here because you don't want to be seen as the person who makes it all happen. Because if you leave, then there's no responsibility; there's really no institution. You need another coordinator to keep things going. I really hope -- this model we have -- it could go on its own. It could rock 'n' roll almost by itself. >>>OPERATOR: Thank you, Judy. That's all the questions I have on transition 55 plan. I do have questions about (indiscernible), though. Would you like to move on to the next segment of your presentation? >>>MS. BABBITT: I think that would be a good idea. These are some of the things that I've done that will help -- that may help some of your viewers. These are sort of tips that I think will enhance the process of institutionalizing change. We have to be people that promote change. You want the change. And you have to elicit that from others. You need to establish the inside and the outside partner ship -- the outside being the people that are the citizens that will be affected by whatever change the institution makes. In other 56 words, the person I spoke about earlier -- those people need to be engaged from the beginning, in an honest, open way. We're talking about people -- people inside the bureaucracy and outside. Partners should respect each other. You've got to come to your meetings, got to listen to them. It's important to know who's going to push which door. Is this something you need an outsider to do? Or should it be done from within? If the City council needs a little push to get something started and you can't do it, find somebody outside. This is one of my key tips, is if you want to try something new, do it as a pilot project. Pilot projects, people who are going to permit this, a pilot project means in their mind 57 that it's not permanent and they can risk doing something not permanent whereas they might not risk it if you said we're going to start it. But if you say let's just do a two-month pilot or a neighborhood pilot or two-block pilot you'll have more success. You can do it with a transition plan. Let's try a format for a transition plan and we'll just do -- we won't do the whole city. We'll do buildings over 10 stories, something like that. You have to involve the advocates as part of the outside team. That's really very important. And you have to involve politicians as part of your outside team. And I'm speaking of anybody outside the bureaucracy. You have to make those people advocates, 58 go to these people who boast -- they're most mistrusting of what's going on and convert them. That's easier said than done. I understand. But they also have networks. You have to know the networks and you have to know the networks' network. This doesn't come overnight. The next would be do not strive to be in the major powers. Stay removed, stay neutral. Insiders are always replaced. Don't hang your hat on a person or a point. To encourage this, in my own self, I never join organizations. I just don't join. And I do this because I want to be seen as somebody who's -- I don't want to be on any boards. I don't want to be on any special groups. And I'm willing to help 59 out and I will work on task forces that have an issue outside of the City. But I do not join as a member of any organization. So that's -- that tip works for me. May not work for everybody, but it works for me. And as you work -- things to think about as you work. Person that has this job needs to be -- have like eight eyes because you have to keep an on going list of major projects but have to be able to respond to the, "we need your help right now." You have to ask for conformation for everything you do -- written and verbal. Keep good records and keep a paper trail. You need to -- I mean, you may not need to. But I need to. I e-mail everyone and I show people -- I show copies to other people. 60 Keep it loose. I say funny things. I say, "Look, I'll trade you 10 dozen cookies for a memo you said you'd have to me by today." Be threatening doesn't help anybody. And I do -- I buy a lot of cookies. People now, ten years say be sure to go to the meetings. She always has cookies. Maybe it's bribery, but it does help. Use existing forms and processes. If you ask people that are loyal to the form or process that they don't want to change, you can start by saying, "Do you think there's any way we might be able to change this?" And provide ideas of the change. Convince your foes and nay sayers. Give up your mission and let them win. Compliment people but be honest. 61 I think maintaining a continuity of effort -- don't waiver or get sidetracked. Dig a row and stay there. There's nothing more important than this if you're talking about sidewalks and construction and the need to comply with sidewalk design. You can't get sidetracked and say now we're going into building. If you're in a sidewalk mode, you need to stay there. It's a good idea to look at what other cities are doing but not to base what you do on that necessarily. I think that every city has -- like every person, they wear different clothes. They have different needs. But Delores Gonzales in Austin -- she's been doing it as long as I. We have a great outside partnership and we e-mail each other about "what 62 are you doing about" and get some good answers between us. Now, the Austin ADA office, which is her office, operates in some ways very similar and in many ways different. Her personality is different than mine and so her implementation is a lot different. But she gets the job done and I think I get the job done. So you can have different models. But those kind of networks are important. The -- I think it's important to know that you have -- you can bring in the big shots if you need to. That's why this political will is so important, that you have a City manager you can go to if you need to. But you don't want to be a threat to other departments. It's important to watch for 63 diversion tactics. The bureaucracy very quickly reverts to the way they used to do things if you aren't continually working with change that you're helping them make. I think that you have to have, in terms of an office -- and really in any job you do, but in this one it's particularly important that the person doing it be really comfortable in their own skin and not let their ego get control of what they're doing. Because it's very easy not to share credit. It's an easy thing because you're human. We all do that. But this is one where you want to share it. You want them to own it. You don't want to own it. Because if they don't own it, it won't happen. And so I would say if anybody's in 64 charge of hiring somebody, it's to make sure that this person is self-confident of who they really are in their place. Because there are days and days and days in this office that, you know, I don't speak to anybody more important than, you know, one level above me. And I would say this in just common terms -- don't BS. Tell people the way it is, what you can do. Don't tell them you can fix the issue, fix the problem, but -- and this is more about, I guess, people that want your help or call you for things they think you can do -- it's better to tell them you don't have control of that, you can't do it. You don't know the answer to the question. I think having a staff if you have an opportunity to have a staff that has skills you don't 65 have. In my office I have -- there are five of us. One of us is part time and (indiscernible) full-time employees. So I think that's about the last of the things I really wanted to hit on. >>>OPERATOR: Okay, Judy. That was great. We've got lots of questions, so since you ended with talking about staff, I have a question from a City official in Arizona. They're trying to set up an office of disability and they're asking whether or not you think someone should -- that when they put out the job description, that disability should be a preferred, non(indiscernible) criteria for a compliance officer. >>>MS. BABBITT: Well, that -- I suppose that could be 66 a form all by itself. You know, I have mixed feelings about this. I think in some ways having experience with a disability is important, but I also think that that -- that you could certainly ponder this position and make a big impact without a disability. Many of the people that have been the most helpful to me have been people without disabilities. And maybe a family member -- I mean, everybody is affected by disabilities. There's no question. Every citizen you've ever talked to has been affected. I think where it is helpful to me -- and do I think it should be part of a job description? I think it should be a consideration. I would not -- I think it's good for public 67 relations probably or image maybe. But I think qualifications are much more important than whether or not somebody has a disability. I wouldn't put it as a primary. I would certainly look at what kind of jobs they've had before, what their experience is, and what their sensitivity is. I think the sensitivity factor is really important here. And I was in the Peace Corps. So I know I wasn't chosen for my disability to go in. Did it help me? Probably. It probably offered a new view of people in America because somebody had a -- they sent somebody with a disability. But I feel that way -- where it has been helpful to me is in working with customers. Customers to me is anybody who wants help from us or 68 wants advice from us. It has been helpful to me as a person with a disability to be able to say to somebody, "look, I have a disability and that's not what the law says. I know -- you know, I know what the law says. Because you're disabled does not mean that this is about privilege. It's not about privilege. It's about equity." Because I think anybody in this kind of office gets those kinds of questions -- well, look, I'm disabled and therefore -- that's how it all starts. "Well, look, I'm disabled too and that doesn't mean it needs to be free. It's not what the law says." I think it's been helpful. I also think it's been helpful with me working with other staff, especially in terms of our infrastructure -- being 69 sidewalks and any kind of street and sidewalk, bus stop issues. I use sidewalks. I'm a user. So in this case I'm a real user of the sidewalks. I use a manual chair. I can talk to other people with disabilities about their problems as a pedestrian. I can bring that back. I can also go out with engineers and construction crews and, you know, say, "Okay. This is really a cool ramp. This works well." They use me that way all the time. I'm fine. They want me to go out, look at a site, role it with them, I'm fine with that. I have contacts among people with disabilities that love to do that. I think it's helpful being someone within the City that people are comfortable coming to. Many people don't know I have a disability until I move 70 away from the office. That's a bad answer, perhaps, but I think qualifications are more important. We just did a study -- we looked at all the job requirements for this position, and I -- I couldn't -- that job description -- I have that job description and if anybody's interested, I'm sure we could make that available. It was after a job study that we did. >>>OPERATOR: Thanks, Judy. Perhaps if you're willing, we might be able to share that job description too with other folks so they can get an idea of what you use. I have some more general questions about the overall operation of your office. And one question comes from someone in Oregon. They have a question about whether 71 or not your City has sort of an ADA oversight committee that oversees and advises your office on different ADA and disability-related issues? >>>MS. BABBITT: Yes. We have disability access advisory committee. This was established in the '80s. And it is made up of a member -- we have 11 members on that committee. The mayor appoints one and each of the City Council members appoint a member to that committee. And they are representatives of the community and often times the membership costs from -- they have two-year terms. The membership comes from lists of people that have been interested and have let our office know. There's an application form so that sometimes people who want to 72 participate -- we already know them and City Council usually takes recommendations from the office as to what kinds of folks, you know, would be good folks to participate. And this committee has been very helpful. I mean, they're always helpful. But it is a formal body, but generally -- I sort of act as one of them rather than some staff member. So it's always -- we always talk about "we" as opposed to "them" and "us." They've been very helpful. We did sidewalk training -- in other words talking about what good sidewalks look like. We took them out, did a sidewalk survey at the meeting site. Got them interested in the different kinds of ramps -- what's a good sidewalk, what's not. It went from there to 73 having some of the different departments come in and talk to them about sidewalk plans that we had that really didn't connect anywhere. And then we worked together to write a letter to the City Council related to the need for a (indiscernible) sidewalk plan. This letter went from them to the mayor of the City Council and the City manager. So they have been involved in this from the very beginning, this plan. And that has really helped. And now they have ownership of this plan, and we have some very capable people on there. We have -- and several have disabilities. But we have an engineer, and he's great. He's going to sit on one of our goal committees and work with the task force that's working on 74 that. This is in the sidewalk design area. He'll be perfect. We have another woman who's a business owner. She's a chair user and a pedestrian like me. She's going to sit on the downtown committee. Through the years they've tackled different issues. A lot of what we do, we educate them so they can go back to their neighborhoods -- for instance, create a brochure about sidewalk blocking. (Indiscernible). It's really been a successful committee through the years. >>>OPERATOR: Okay. Thank you, Judy. Now we have a question from a person from an advocacy organization in New Mexico and they're wondering about your ADA complaint and 75 grievance procedure, how you handle it, what the requirements are, and what you've done in San Antonio. >>>MS. BABBITT: Well, we have I guess you would say a formal and informal. We have a grievance process as required under ADA. Our grievance procedure is posted on our website. And it requires a written grievance, written statement from somebody who has an issue with something that an ADA -- ADA compliance in the city. And so that is available. Then there are time frames for response to that grievance. I believe it's 15 days for a response. It's not necessarily a solution but a contact and a message of, you know, we're looking into it. That is -- that process surprisingly is not used very 76 much. We track that as they come in. We track that on a spread sheet. Complaints come in through lots of sources. They come in through other departments, and if a department gets a -- if we get a complaint about a department, we send that complaint to that particular department, and that's the agreement that we've made, that each department will resolve their own complaints. Not to say we don't help them. But we are not the complaint-resolvers for the City. If it's an ADA complaint, it goes to the department, they handle it, they work it out with our help. So that's one way we deal with that. These are -- they may be formal grievances, an e-mail question 77 or complaint. Again, we don't know exactly how all the departments operate. But if it's an ADA complaint it should start with the department. It may be a miscommunication. It may be the way a sign was worded. So that's one way those complaints come in. We have a customer service -- city-wide customer service number, 3-1-1. Complaints come in through that number and often times come to us. We -- again, we log all the complaints in, try to resolve them. And so we keep a spread sheet on what's -- and right now it isn't very formal, and that's again this implementation plan -- how are we going to handle the complaints for the City? But the -- with the sidewalk 78 complaints, of which we get many. They come in directly to us, these sidewalk complaints, or they come through somebody else. But generally sidewalk complaints seem to hit my box. These, we are tracking with what we call a geographic-based information system. That is, we get a complaint and somebody gives us an address where that complaint is. We are mapping those. We also have verbiage of complaints but we can track this complaint and put it on a map. So for instance, we have, like, 75 sidewalk formal grievances that are on a spread sheet. When we get them, we know where we sent them, know where we forwarded them. We know the address. We know where they 79 are, and we have a map showing what else is going on around there. So with this map we can also look at what bus stops (indiscernible). You know, with our new sidewalk survey we can say there's no sidewalk out there; there's a bus stop, and nobody could get to it. And so that -- then you begin to prioritize these things. This geographic-based information system is probably the best technology that has come along that I think cities are -- cities in our position, at least, with right-of-way guidelines coming up, it's important to use this geography to resolve some of these problems. The system has been great. And I have one person on my staff -- he's a specialist GIF. He's the one that can make them out. With 80 that you can also layer on different surfaces that might exist in the area. So you begin to get a picture of the complaint and the totality of it rather than, Oh, gosh, there's a missing sidewalk. >>>OPERATOR: Thank you, Judy. Another question about the scope of your office's authority. What has the City given you in terms of limits and boundaries regarding your authority to implement procedures, respond to complaints and other disability-related issues? >>>MS. BABBITT: Well, it -- this is again, just certainly my view of this, is that in setting up the office there was a definite intent that my authority is horizontal. It is not necessarily vertical. In other words I don't have to go up 81 and down in one department before I do anything. I can reach out to any department and vice versa. In other words, I can contact a department head because there's been a complaint about his department. So the -- you know, one has to be very careful about defining "authority" and about overusing it if you have it. I do a lot of convincing but I think I have developed a certain amount of positive credibility that I know my limits and I don't -- I wouldn't challenge anybody really (indiscernible). I think it's the image of the authority that I have is more than the authority I have because I really don't -- I really don't have a lot. But you really don't need a lot of authority if you really understand 82 (indiscernible). If you really work as a team and do that on a regular basis -- the authority issue is not -- you know, it's a judgment call for me. Every day is another judgment call, how far can I go with this? Do I push -- shall I push it now, shall I go to somebody else to push it? So I think it's understood that I can go horizontally, which is enough authority for me. My office is located in the department of public works. Public works administration is not involved with my work with, say, another department, say the health department. That's completely independent. I do prepare for myself a weekly list of things I've got on my hot button list. Sometimes it's 30 things. They don't get all done at once. Sometimes they're 83 carried over. Half of it -- more than half of it is not related to the public works department at all. So it's a great resource department because they're supportive and do a lot of the sidewalk work. But when I'm not doing sidewalks, they don't have much involvement with the activities. >>>OPERATOR: Okay, Judy. We couldn't get away. We've got a lot of questions from different areas of the country about parking. And people would like to know more about how you enforce or monitor or what you do in terms of making sure you have enough accessible parking in San Antonio, how it's enforced, if you have any special enforcement programs where you engage or use people with disabilities? 84 >>>MS. BABBITT: Well, doesn't everybody have parking problems. We're probably no better equipped than any other city. The -- we've done several interesting things here. And no, there's no (indiscernible) disabled parking for people with disabilities because the more people who learn about it -- how easy it is to get the decals, the more spaces we need. So that's kind of a moot point, actually. But it is interesting -- and I don't know. This is just an aside, but I was talking to somebody the other day about this whole parking thing, and I say -- they said, "You know, why is it that we're not supposed to use disabled parking if there's nobody in it but it's okay to use the bathroom -- the stall, the 85 reserved stall? It isn't really reserved for people with disabilities". That is an interesting question, why can anybody use the stall but not anybody can use the parking space? I know my own mother never used the accessible stall because she thought it was for people with disabilities only. So that's -- to me, that's a great question. But San Antonio -- most of our metered parking is all downtown, and we do have downtown parking people that will indeed ask to -- for identification if somebody's been parking and using the tag. They do it randomly, to people in wheelchairs even. They do -- every now and then they do a sweep and go through. It cleaned up for a 86 while. And then it comes back. But like other cities, we started -- we have a volunteer program. It isn't using people with disabilities, it's using people who come into the program. Could be but not intently people with disabilities. That's run out of the police department. These people work in the malls and the larger -- like Wal-Marts and those kinds of things. Very successful program, and it is run by the police department. And I know Austin has a unique program, and I think it's great, where the fees from those tickets go in to assist the ADA office. So that allows that coordinator to make some decisions where she could, you know, answer complaints, small complaints. Because it 87 does give her another revenue source, and we don't do that here. But I think that's one way to do it so that that money, it gets turned around into the kind -- kind of the same area. But we do -- we are very careful about the design of parking. I'm more interested in the design of parking spaces and making sure that when people are putting in parking they put it in correctly and that we try to enforce it, but it's a never-ending problem. >>>OPERATOR: Thank you so much, Judy. Parking is indeed always a hot topic. Unfortunately we have run out of time. I want to share people that did submit questions we were not able to answer that we will respond to each of you individually, and I 88 want to assure people that we will post those materials once Judy shares with them up on our website and we'll notify everyone when they're ready. Before I close up I do want to remind people, because I see that we have a lot of ADA coordinators on board, and I want to remind everyone to register for the national ADA symposium, which we have June 8th through the 10th in Kansas Missouri. (Indiscernible) in the ADA. This year we have three industries -- specific tracks. One on accessible design, one for specifically for ADA coordinators and one on employment. We will send out an announcement shortly to everyone on the list. You can find out more information about how to register for that 89 conference. I also want to remind people about the resources of the disability and business technical assistance centers. We provide training, technical assistance and resources on the ADA. If you have any questions, please in order to get ahold of your regional center call 800-94 (indiscernible). Thank you, Judy, for being here. I hope everyone has learned something valuable. You will be able to access today's transcript and the audio portion tomorrow afternoon on ILRU's website. WWW.ILRU.org. We would love to hear your feedback so please take the time to fill out the evaluation form. In closing I would like to thank those who made today's 90 presentation possible, our funder NIDRR. This production would not have been possible without ILRU in-house staff and the technical expertise of rob and our captioner, Jennifer. Thank you, Judy. Have a great afternoon, everyone.