WIOA & ACL Proposed Regulations presented by Ann McDaniel, Kelly Buckland and Brad Williams This presentation provides a comparison between the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act (WIOA) changes affecting the IL program and the regulations proposed by ACL for implementing them. BRAD WILLIAMS: We are going to get ourselves started. So we now have section 705 establishment of the SILC. And on the left we have the law, and some of these are going to seem familiar. Have and maintain a SILC to be eligible for the funding. Shall not be established as an entity within a state agency. Appointed by a governor or other authority. In New York we are actually one of those. We are appointed by the state regents. And then the composition, CIL director, director of CIL run by a tribe. That's actually a new one, remember they were the 121 projects, Voc Rehab Projects. Now they are the director of CIL run by tribe. You have your ex-officio nonvoting members from DSE and other state agencies. When we look over at regulations. We want to make sure these are what we are kind of summarizing that the SILC meets the requirements of section 705. We have been talking about this. Some of this conversation has been taking place here, not established as an entity within a state agency but we do have some nuances here. We are talking about some of the autonomy and some people are state agency. There are some hybrids that do occur here. Shall be independent and autonomous from the DSE and other state agencies. We will continue to talk about on the regulation side the qualifications. And the law side, yes. The law side. Statewide representation. You know we are talking about council members here and you are doing your recruiting and how you do your recruiting you want to make sure that on your council you get statewide representation from across your entire state. You have a broad range of people with disabilities and that they become knowledgeable or are knowledgeable about centers for independent living and independent living. Then you also have to make sure that in that makeup that they are not employed by a CIL or state as it applies to your voting membership and total membership. That gets a little confusing. We use an excel spreadsheet in order to track this because you really have to look at especially when it comes to your membership and the people who are individuals with disabilities you have to have more than 51 percent. But even in that total you have to account for that are not affiliated with centers for independent living and state employees. Employed by, absolutely. They can be board members, consumers. But you then have to, you can't count them so you have to make sure you are above that 51 percent threshold. And as we look over here there are no regulations proposed for these items. Let's go to the next panel and for the law under section 705, the chairperson council selects from among the voting membership. If the governor doesn't have veto power can select a chairperson. That is interesting to us in New York State because as I recalled, our appointing authority is New York state regents. But that's not the case in most states in this country. In terms of appointment and your vacancies. You know you really want this accounted for. And most of you should account for this in your bylaws, okay? All members are subject to term limits. What that kind of says is you have your three-year term limit with the possibility for another three years. And only the one CIL this doesn't apply to CIL director. And then vacancies filled in the same manner. The governor may delegate the authority of SILC to fill vacancies. We have an interesting process and of course we do not have the governor involved. But we have a recruitment committee. We start the process where we look at our vacancies. Vacancies may occur naturally during the year. And then we look at what happens for those who are terming off. The recruitment committee looks at what is then open and then starts a process and then looks to do a robust call for candidates, solicitation and then goes through a vetting process with the applications and goes through a telephone interview and then has a recommendation of candidate slate and makes those recommendations to the executive committee. The committee then makes its approvals and then goes to, currently it is the DSU, will be the DSE, and it goes forward. The state regents are the appointing authority but that might make it a really good process to follow to make it go forward. Obviously in other states you have the governor but at least that way you can be involved in the process whatever you might have. But we have here that there are no regulations proposed for this part of the section. Let me proceed. Then for Section 705 under functions and then we have here the duties. The duty to change, develop a plan. Monitor, review and evaluate the plan. Meet regularly, open to the public. Submit reports to ACL, and then coordinate with other entities that provide similar services that complement IL services. Now when we look at the regulations, we kind of did highlights. Obviously we want to have everything that is here in the law over on this side. We didn't quite put that down there. Some of the things are. Okay? But we put a few of the other things so I am just going to highlight those. May direct people to the nearest center not direct service. So they wanted to make sure that as SILC we weren't doing like direct services. We were just making sure we were directing people to our network. And supervise and evaluate own staff. AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is a real long section. BRAD WILLIAMS: Right, so we are right at the end. So questions. It's a little too close? Not close enough. It's interesting because we get such an echo up here it's hard to gauge exactly where to be. So we are at the end. For this part of the law, really the only thing that was new was the duties and just for the overview it's functions, there is duties and authorities. Authorities will go I had you down for authorities next. So Ann is going to be doing authorities next. But for what I just covered were there any questions? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Is there a minimum number of members for a SILC. BRAD WILLIAMS: That's a great question. And I don't know that there is a minimum number. I think what is appropriate within your state. KELLY BUCKLAND: There is a minimum number. BRAD WILLIAMS: Oh, there is a minimum number. I was never aware of that. What is the minimum number? KELLY BUCKLAND: You have to have certain people sit on the SILC. BRAD WILLIAMS: There you go. KELLY BUCKLAND: You would have to have at least those people. BRAD WILLIAMS: So there would be- KELLY BUCKLAND: There's a required number of people on the SILC. You have to have a center director. You have to have a tribal center if there is one. There isn't right now. You have to have the nonvoting members. And then you have to have at least that many plus one who don't work for an agency or a center. So you do have a minimum number. There's no maximum number but there is for sure a minimum number. ANN MCDANIEL: But they don't say in the law minimum number is five, for example. KELLY BUCKLAND: True. ANN MCDANIEL: You know you have to have a center director selected by the center directors. A tribal center if that exists, you have to have people who are knowledgeable about independent living and you have to have the DSE and other nonvoting members. So if you count those up your going to have to have, KELLY BUCKLAND: Six or seven. BRAD WILLIAMS: Yeah, and you have various appointment categories. AUDIENCE MEMBER: And in Ohio this has become a little more problematic over the last year because our members are appointed by the governor's office on boards and commissions and the governor and the director of the VR agency decided to reduce the number of members on our council from 11 to seven. So it gets to be very difficult to fill out all those categories just like you were saying where you have to have this, you have to have that. That gets really, it's become a lot more problematic to get that right mix of people as required. BRAD WILLIAMS: And then to make sure that you meet the 51 percent number people with disabilities as well. BRAD WILLIAMS: So our minimum and maximum numbers written within our bylaws. Is that not how most places are? PAULA MCELWEE: Yes. That's how most places are but it does take all of this into consideration. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a couple of different questions with this. Is there any reason why you wouldn't have a board of directors from a center on a SILC? And also when you are talking about the three-year limit is there a time span you can be off to start another three-year limit? And if you do have board of directors on there, are there counted as staff? As far as an employee. BRAD WILLIAMS: Well, first of all, I mean you would definitely want representation from your center network. What you would want to account for is if they are a federally funded network and they are staff, you would have to consider that in your calculation of the number of people with disabilities on the council against that 51 percent. BRAD WILLIAMS: What do you mean? AUDIENCE MEMBER: The board member would not be staff because they are not being paid. PAULA MCELWEE: Board member of CIL? ANN MCDANIEL: When you are talking about a center board member, no, they would not be considered an employee. In my opinion one of the very best ways to get people to serve on your council who are knowledgeable about centers and about independent living is to tap the center boards and the center consumers. BRAD WILLIAMS: I misunderstood your question. All right. Because you can also get not only volunteers from centers. You can get many different individuals volunteers, advocates, many different people based from the centers in their networks. Okay? So yes. So long as they are not staff you have to account for staff. Okay. And you have a one-year a person who is on the council maybe to serve, serves six years, has to wait one year and then they can reapply if that is in fact what they want to do. PAULA MCELWEE: That's typically put in the bylaws but it's not actually required that it be a full year. So there are some SILCs who have put in their bylaws a shorter period of time. ANN MCDANIEL: I have a question of clarification. You mentioned the center director if there was a reservation or tribe within their service area. Do they have to have an active program within that reservation? Because we do have a center and a reservation within her service area but they do not have an active program on that reservation. ANN MCDANIEL: Is the center operated by the tribe? That's what the law says. If you have a center that is operated by the tribe then you have to have them on your council. KELLY BUCKLAND: So just to be clear, right now my understanding, and this comes from CANAR, which is the association of VR administrators on reservations. There is no tribal run center in the country right now. So if you are wondering whether or not you need to have a tribal rep on your council, the answer is no. No. They went away. They lost their money this year. They were not refunded. Oh, well CANAR told me just the opposite of that. ANN MCDANIEL: That is your VR people for ya. PAULA MCELWEE: We can't hear this conversation that you guys are having. KELLY BUCKLAND: Tim said there is one. When I was talking to CANAR I said there was one center, right? And they said no, they lost their funding but Tim says no, there is no funding so there's a question about whether or not New Mexico needs to have a center director on their council. Is it New Mexico? ANN MCDANIEL: Is the tribal center in New Mexico, Tim? KELLY BUCKLAND: What state is it? TIM BEATTY: South Dakota. KELLY BUCKLAND: Okay, South Dakota. You have a question. Everybody else don't worry about it. (laughter). PAULA MCELWEE: Got a question here. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a question for WIOA. We are a council member are we beyond statewide independent living council since WIOA took over? KELLY BUCKLAND: what was the question? AUDIENCE MEMBER: My question is if WIOA (inaudible) should be on the council members. PAULA MCELWEE: So you are a council member now? WIOA hasn't changed your current council makeup. You would still be on that council but that's up to your local state's how often you have to change is up to your local state's bylaws. So it would be worked out there. It's a little different from one state to the next about how the turnover happens on a council. It does need to happen but exactly how it's done is a little different state to state. You do have to have term limits though. ANN MCDANIEL: For example in my state I don't think we have ever had anybody appointed for a full three-year term. They always get appointed way into the term. So theoretically everybody on my council could just keep serving because they always have a gap between the end of their term and the beginning of their next term. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I was talking about WIOA (inaudible) transferring over to next private company DDS. AUDIENCE MEMBER: For purposes of the 51 percent we have several people who are on our council who are both the CIL employees and DSU employees. To make the 51 percent disabled for disabled, they are all disabled. Do you count them as disabled or not? Because they have dual status. KELLY BUCKLAND: It has to be 51 percent people with disabilities who don't work for a state agency and don't work for a center. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. That's what I wanted to get clear. So they are not counted as disabled for 51 percent? BRAD WILLIAMS: When you do the total count you can do, you look at, you have to do two counts like we said back here. You have first do a total count but you have to take out the number of CIL staff and you have to take out the state employees and then you do a voting member count taking out those same two categories so you have to do both of those counts. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Would it be problematic if seven of 11 of the SILC members were CIL directors for nearly a decade and recently we had an ACL official that wrote a report that said that Indiana didn't have any qualified applicants but in fact they did, they were simply repeating what the state agency told them which wasn't true. So instead of telling the council to actually reach out and engage the disabled community ACL suggested that the governor just appoint people for twice as long. KELLY BUCKLAND: So why don't you take the first part of the question. ANN MCDANIEL: Tim Beatty is shaking his head. The law requires that at least 51 percent of the members of the council, both the full membership and then the voting membership are people with disabilities who do not work for a center for independent living and do not work for any state agency. So if that is not the case on your council, your council is out of compliance. PAULA MCELWEE: I think we need to go on with our presentation now. ANN MCDANIEL: When do you start training? AUDIENCE MEMBER: You need to start deploying expertise to these various areas if indeed that is the case. I am sorry. My name is Richard Simms, from the DC CIL. I have a terrible cold, it seems to me that the thing to do looking down the road is to employ some overall training. I mean heavy-duty training. I can't imagine do you have any idea how many SILCs are out of compliance. KELLY BUCKLAND: We don't oversee the SILCs. AUDIENCE MEMBER: No, no, I know that Kelly. My question was do we have any idea how many SILCs may be out of compliance. KELLY BUCKLAND: No. ANN MCDANIEL: Well, it's very difficult at this point to even know even if you are ACL because you have to go based on what the 704 reports say number one and number two there are no standards and indicators for SILCs yet so they don't really have a mechanism to measure compliance of SILCs but it's coming, right, Vicki? But it is coming. So things are going to get better. AUDIENCE MEMBER: It does matter. ANN MCDANIEL: Because we also now have a federal agency that actually cares about the fact that there may be SILCs are out of compliance that actually cares about whether this law is implemented with the intent of congress. KELLY BUCKLAND: So Richard what I would tell you is that we have under the law there are so many centers, there's so many SILCs in a year I believe it's like a fifth of them that are supposed to be reviewed by ACL. Used to be RSA. And they are supposed to review them for compliance with the law. Membership was one of those things that they would look for. So this 51 percent thing that we have been discussing should have been reviewed and there should be records about who is in compliance and who isn't in compliance. We wouldn't know that but ACL should. The second thing I would say is that with the standards and indicators, there will be new measures that they will have to meet which those measures just because people in this room developed draft standards and indicators that were given to ACL, those were put together by us and they came directly out of law. So all of this stuff when those standards and indicators are put into place and should be reviewed and there should be a record of that, it should be available to anybody simply by asking for it from ACL or Tim actually. ANN MCDANIEL: Just a quick follow up if I might. I know this has been somewhat PAULA MCELWEE: Can't hear you. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I am not saying anything. I know this has been particular to the District of Columbia over the years but where do you weight autonomy in the hierarchy? Autonomy from the DSU more specifically. you say the composition is important. Absolutely I agree. Where is autonomy from the designated state unit in that hierarchy of importance? ANN MCDANIEL: I think it's very high and I think ACL thinks it's high because they put specific language in the proposed regulations around the autonomy and the SILC being autonomous of the DSE and all other state agencies so I think it's been given more weight than it ever had before. KELLY BUCKLAND: I think you can see that in the proposed regs. But what I would add to that is I don't think that's been implemented. There hasn't been a review conducted yet by ACL under the new law or under the new regs over the state agencies and the SILCs. The state plans haven't even been written or submitted yet. So we are at the very beginning of this process and until the standards and indicators are put in place you still have a piece missing. So the implementation and the enforcement of this is still very new. Hasn't really started yet in my opinion. And the process to do that hasn't even been developed. Okay. So the some people may look at the rules and say well, that process is not here. That's true. And in NCIL's opinion that is actually a positive thing because ACL has told us in meetings, they want to work with NCIL and other stakeholders to put together the process by which that would occur so that's still in the development phases. But I can tell you that we all at this table I think anyway are very optimistic about what that's going to look like when it's put together. We think you are going to, we believe you will see an incredible improvement over what you are used to. So we have to see how that plays out. But we at this point are very optimistic that this is going to be, we are in a new era and we are going to see things done differently. But we have said numerous times up here this takes a while to put this stuff in place and we want to make sure we get it right instead of being in a hurry about it, so we want to make sure we get it right and it's something that's going to work. So this review process is something that ACL and NCIL and APRIL and other stakeholders are still going to be working through. ANN MCDANIEL: We are going to move on because we have to lot to cover and not a lot of time left. So the next piece of section 705 that I want to bring to your attention is brand-new and it's about the authorities of the SILC. We have always had some duties. The duties changed a bit but the bigger change is that we now have several authorities. One is to work with the centers for independent living to coordinate services. I am thinking we should probably have always done that. But now it's in the law. The second is to conduct resource development which that was never a duty or an authority. Some SILCs have done it over the years but then RSA clamped down a bit on doing anything outside of the duties and the law. Now we specifically have the authority to do resource development and we can do it to support not only the activities of the SILC which is logical but we can also do it to support the independent living services that is are provided by the centers for independent living so there's another opportunity for collaboration with the centers. Because it wouldn't make sense to me that if the centers to have as one of their responsibilities under the law to do resource development and the SILC now has the authority to do resource development that we should coordinate our efforts because we will get more accomplished. Then we also have the favorite of all the new authorities, which is the catchall phrase that says we can perform other functions that we choose to perform that are consistent with section 705 of the act and with the purpose of Title VII. And remember Title VII begins with that purpose statement in Section 701 that is this big broad beautiful foundation for everything that we do. So if you go back and look at that and think, well what could the SILC do around that? You can see systems advocacy. You can see leadership development. You can see things that are going to make not only the SILC more effective but the network of independent living in your state and the efforts to achieve that purpose so in the proposed regulations around the authorities the one thing that really stands out to me is we are allowed to do these new things. We need to have them described in the state plan if we choose to do them. We have to do the duties so that's assumed but if we are going to choose to do some authorities and some activities under authorities we need to have that described in the state plan. We need to coordinate with centers to avoid conflicting or overlapping activities. And that's part of what I was talking about with resource development but that would be the case also with systems advocacy just as another example. If the SILC is going to do it we have to put it in plan and then we need to coordinate our efforts with the centers so we aren't in opposition to each other on anything. But also so we can maximize what we are doing. We cannot engage in any activities that constitute the direct provision of independent living services and we are going to get to our limitation about that on the next slide. And we have to comply with federal prohibitions against lobbying. And there's a lot more information out there about lobbying from ILRU and the Internal Revenue Service to help you clarify exactly what is lobbying and I say this to everybody when I talk about this issue. Systems advocacy includes a lot of different types of activities. Lobbying is one of them. But there's lots of other ways to do systems advocacy besides direct lobbying. The next slide is where we get to our limitation. The SILC shall not provide independent living services directly to individuals with disabilities and I think that is in the law to really provide clarification and a clean delineation between what a SILC does and what centers for independent living do because we shouldn't be competing with centers. My opinion we should be supporting centers. So we don't do services. They do services and then we want to collaborate on all the other things that we do. Hearings and forums We are authorized to hold hearings and forums necessary to carry out our duties. So that means anything that we feel like we need to gather input on or we need to get feedback on to make sure we are accomplishing our duties that we are required to accomplish. We are allowed to hold forums on that to get input and feedback from the public from people with disabilities and other stakeholders. And there are no specific regulations around the limitation or the hearings and forums other than that piece that falls back here about not engaging in activities that involve the direct provision of services. Are there any questions on this section? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Will you give us an example of overlapping activities. ANN MCDANIEL: An example of what? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Overlapping activities. You said lobbying was one. ANN MCDANIEL: Right, systems advocacy would be an example of things we might all be doing but could overlap if we weren't coordinating with each other. Resource development is another one. If the centers are doing resource development and the SILC is doing resource development you might be going after the same people, the same money so you would want to coordinate to make sure you are not planning on doing the same things with the money number one and that you are not competing with each other for the money. That's just one example. BRAD WILLIAMS: It depends on your state. Like in our state we have a really strong state association. So in addition to the center network we really want to make sure that we are also talking with our state association as well. ANN MCDANIEL: Who is next? Back here. AUDIENCE MEMBER: When you mentioned development of resources, I am sorry, coordinate with conflicting and overlapping resources exactly who is going to make a determination on the oversight as to definition of conflicting and overlapping activities? And also when you talk about conduct resource development you are painting a pretty broad brush in a phrase called resource development. What does that mean? What are its limitations, physical, financial, personnel? ANN MCDANIEL: As far as the law goes, the limitations would be what the funding would be used for so you would develop funding to support the activities of the SILC and/or independent living services provided by the centers so that's a limitation right there. The only way you are going to make sure you don't overlap is by communicating with each other. The state plan development process is a really good opportunity to do that. Because if we are going to do resource development we have to put it in the plan. So we would want to be able to show how that compares to what the centers are doing because the work plan in the SPIL has to be coordinated with the work plans of the centers so it's a matter of communicating with each other and working together on what goes into the plan. PAULA MCELWEE: And we want to mention that also there's going to be a session on fund development resource development specifically because we know it's new and there are a lot of questions around it. So there's going to be a session tomorrow on that topic. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I want to talk about systems advocacy and lobbying. And I totally agree with you that there are many many ways to do systems advocacy that are not lobbying. However there is also a reality that there are times that as a SILC we do need to lobby. And there's a very set definition of lobbying and that's when you are talking with the legislator trying to influence them on a piece of legislation. Among other things. And an example of that would be while we can certainly do other systems advocacy there are times and I will just give you an example of trying to get state funding for centers for independent living. That's actually lobbying. It's resource development which we are allowed to do but it's also lobbying because you are asking legislators to put an appropriation in for either first time or ongoing or increased funding for centers and I just wanted to say that if your SILC is a 501c3 nonprofit you are allowed to lobby. You just can't use federal or state funds to do it so you need to have policies and procedures in place for how you are going to do that and not use federal or state funds and that you have it clearly documented so that nobody can question you. But yes, you can do lobbying. ANN MCDANIEL: And I would add two things to that. When you talk about not using state funds that doesn't just mean you can't pay mileage to go to the capitol and pay for somebody's time while they are there. You also have to consider your operating costs and make sure that you have other revenue that is going to cover that you can show cleanly that none of your federal funding is being used for that purpose. ANN MCDANIEL: There's an amount, the IRS says. ANN MCDANIEL: Not of federal money there is not. You may not use federal money to lobby and I am going to what you are talking about. KELLY BUCKLAND: Well there might be some disagreement about that. ANN MCDANIEL: I don't want to talk about that right now because we are talking about this. ANN MCDANIEL: As a nonprofit corporation if you choose to lobby it's very wise of you to elect to lobby and fill out the IRS paperwork for that because then that sets specific financial parameters for you about how much of your budget you can use to lobby. Otherwise it's a judgment call on their part if they look at you. So electing to lobby is one thing you would want to do. And then making sure that you have outside resources and you can cleanly track and delineate what is being used for lobbying that is separate from the rest of your operation. And Vicki is saying I am right. You may absolutely talk to your legislators without actually lobbying. You absolutely may one of the things that I think is important for us to do is to share information about independent living and the effects on people with disabilities and the effects of things that are being considered if this happens this could be the impact on people that we care about in our state. KELLY BUCKLAND: I have a little bit of a In Idaho we wrote the law that actually directed the SILC to work with policy makers and it absolutely allowed you to use state money to do that. The second thing is the reason I read the definition under Part B was because that's federal money and it's clearly says that you can do an analysis. if you have done an analysis and you have determined in your state there's too few dollars for your centers you are allowed to use that money to go up and tell policy makers there's not enough money and they need to put more money into it. That language clearly gives you the ability to do that. So I would argue there's actually times when you could use state money to lobby and there's times you could use federal money to lobby. And there's been court decisions. I will tell you this: there have been court decisions that say there's a blanket prohibition against using federal money to lobby. But there are court decisions that show that unless it's authorized in your enabling legislation and I read it right from the law. In my opinion and I think you could probably get a court to agree, that in their opinion basically there's limited circumstances when you can actually use under our law Part B money to do exactly what you are saying you can't do with it. ANN MCDANIEL: so this is Vicki Gottlich from ACL. And I love this conversation. I came from a nonprofit world before I went to the federal government. And I did a lot of work on Capitol Hill as a federally funded program in a 501 C3 and there are very interesting ways that you can do systems advocacy as Ann said and as Kelly said. Number one you need to look at your grant requirements and ACL grant requirements are pretty strict on lobbying. You have to look at your tax requirements your tax law. But you can educate. So if your state is cutting funding for the centers you can go and say here is our 704 report. We provided this number of services. And in your district we did xy and z because it's education. It's information. Some people would say that's lobbying but you are not there saying we want your support we need more money. You are saying look what you got for your dollars. I think that's what Ann was saying. ANN MCDANIEL: And this is how many people centers got out of institutions which saved this much money and this is how many people they prevented from going into institutions which saved this much money you can absolutely do all of that. When you talk to legislators it's not always lobbying. You are allowed to talk to them it's a matter of what you are saying. KELLY BUCKLAND: Especially if they invite you. ANN MCDANIEL: Oh, if they invite you to invite and testify you absolutely can. KELLY BUCKLAND: ILRU and NCIL under IL-NET did an entire training on systems advocacy and what you can and can't do and I believe Bob Michaels contributed heavily to that training. PAULA MCELWEE: It's still available on our website. KELLY BUCKLAND: I would suggest people go there. I think it's a really valuable resource to kind of answer a lot of questions that we have. But thank you Vicki. I think what you said is exactly right. AUDIENCE MEMBER: So I have a question regarding resources. Apparently you can raise resources. ANN MCDANIEL: yes. AUDIENCE MEMBER: okay. So when we raise this money we have our own account and give it to the state to manage with our grant moneys. ANN MCDANIEL: Well, part of that depends on where you are going to try to raise money. There are an awful lot of resources out there who aren't going to give you money unless you are a nonprofit. And so that is something you need to look at when you are looking at where you might raise money. There are laws in your state generally about if you want to do literal fund-raising you may need to be registered as a charitable organization in your state to be allowed to do it. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Right. I understand that. What I am talking about is once that's done and you have raised funds you have the money in your hand, the money then is given to whoever is handling your grant moneys or you have a separate account. Because we are having difficulty even accessing our grant moneys. ANN MCDANIEL: So why would you give them that money then? AUDIENCE MEMBER: We don't want to. That's what I am saying what do we do? PAULA MCELWEE: You do not have to. KELLY BUCKLAND: Open a bank account. ANN MCDANIEL: Open a bank account. PAULA MCELWEE: We have to talk about that a little more because you probably opened the bank account to receive the money from the state too. You should be able to write your own checks and pay your own bills, right, guys? So let's talk about some way to do that. We don't have time to do all that right now. Remember that we are going to all be available for this entire time. So if you have got a question that's not getting answered right now, please grab one of us during the break or whenever you can during the day and we will continue these conversations. They are very important but we have some content we need to get through. ANN MCDANIEL: I am going to go through this next piece a little bit quickly and pass it off to these guys to finish and then we will take more questions at the end. The next piece that we are going to talk about is the SILC resource plan and the law says that you are supposed to prepare it in conjunction with a designated state entity, that it has to be necessary and sufficient to carry out the functions of the SILC, and you can have funds from Part B, from Title I Innovation and Expansion and from other public and private sources. Now, in my opinion the reason you have to prepare it in conjunction with the DSE is because the only money, the only money that the law says has to be used for the SILC resource plan is the Title I Innovation and Expansion money. In Title One Section 101 a 18 it says that the state shall set aside money for innovation and expansion activities. It goes into more detail about what that involves and that the state will use a portion of that money to support the resource plan of the SILC and the resource plan of the SRC. So if you are going to access this money that is mandated by law for the SILC resource plan you would have to negotiate with the DSE about that pot of money. The Part B money is part of your state plan development process and you will decide amongst yourselves while you are developing your state plan how much that's going to be and you then you can use other private or public money if you can get it for your SILC resource plan. The SILC is to supervise and evaluate the staff. The staff are a resource to the SILC, okay? And you are supposed to supervise and evaluate your own staff. If you have staff that's provided by your DSE, none of the work that they are given to do can create a conflict of interest with the provision of the staff support to the SILC. Okay? And your resource plan may be used for reasonable and necessary expenses of members and compensation of members for their time in fulfilling their SILC duties. Then in the proposed regulations it says you have to prepare your resource plan in conjunction with the DSE. That the amount is to be commensurate with the estimated costs to fulfill the duties and authorities. So it really has to be a reasonable amount of money for you to be able to do the things that the law says you have to do. The sources of funds can include Part B, state match and I&E funds, other public and private sources of funding. That no conditions or requirements can be put on the money that would compromise the independence of the SILC. So for example if you are using Part B or I&E money that's going to come through your Designated State Unit for I&E money, state entity for Part B money they may or may not be the same folks. You are going to have some kind of an agreement with them for that money. They don't just write checks without paperwork to back it up. Well they can't put anything in the agreement that compromises the independence of the SILC. I am going to say that again. They cannot put any conditions or requirements in your agreement for your funding for your resource plan that compromises the independence of the SILC. They cannot compromise your autonmity and your authority by manipulating the money. If they are doing that now don't let them do it when you get your new agreement under your new state plan because it's not allowed. The SILC has to be responsible for the proper expenditure of your funds and resources. You have to be accountable for your money. And the SILC resource plan has to be included in the State Plan for Independent Living. Kelly you are up. KELLY BUCKLAND: So one of the things we want today try to do today which I think has become pretty apparent we wanted to just give you an idea. Because the comments on the rules were due yesterday. And the rules were out. We wanted to show you what it said in the law and what the rules said so you would have a sense about how closely the rules follow the law. So we hope that's come across today. This part really is about the responsibilities of the administrator when they talk about the administrator they mean the administrator of the Administration on Community Living. So essentially you can see that the law says that the administrator is responsible to approve any SPIL that meets the requirements of Section 704. Like I said earlier as long as it's not illegal it really should be approved and that's what our attorneys’ opinion was. She has the responsibility to disapprove any plan that isn't legally complying with Section 704. And to develop standards and indicators for SILCs and we talked a lot about that and as I said NCIL and SILC congress worked together to put together some recommended standards and indicators that were sent over to her. So pretty quickly that is that piece, questions? So I will go through this a little bit. But I think Darrell did a pretty good job of explaining this at the beginning. So I don't think I need to go through this a lot. But essentially what the law says is that there's between 1.8 and two percent of the funds are withheld to be used for training and technical assistance. So under Part C funds the law says the same thing. The difference is the law says under Part C that that technical assistance has to be done through contract with someone else which is why it goes to ILRU. Under Part B when Congress wrote this they said that they could do it either directly or through contract. So ACL has the choice about using some of the money to do their own technical assistance. So NCIL in our comments suggested that we thought they should do it through contract rather than direct. That's the difference between what the law says and the Part B and Part C. BRAD WILLIAMS: So questions? AUDIENCE MEMBER: Kelly you talked about, under Section 706 you talked about if a SPIL is disapproved and does not meet the requirements of 704 that for a reasonable notice and an opportunity for a hearing. Can you elaborate on that? Let me just say this: heretofore if a CIL and I know this because I inherited a CIL that was out of compliance. Heretofore there was no hearing I don't think. KELLY BUCKLAND: This is the state plan. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Okay. So how would that hearing, there would be an actual hearing? And who would be. AUDIENCE MEMBER: So what I am going to tell you Richard is that's what the law says. But basically I think you are going to see a process put into place that is much more along the lines that if your SPIL is out of compliance they are going to contact you and let you know it's not in compliance with the law and give you an opportunity to bring it into compliance and resubmit. PAULA MCELWEE: I have a question back here. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have a question on the 1.8 and the two percent for the T & TA. Does that come directly off the top before that states get their Part B funding or like Kansas gets $305,000 in Part B? Do I need to consider 1.8 to two percent coming off of that amount or is it way before it gets to that? ANN MCDANIEL: It is way before it gets to the state amount. KELLY BUCKLAND: That's the first thing that happens is that is held back before it ever goes out to the states. AUDIENCE MEMBER: But then what that means is that we are all going to get a cut in Part B funding because that's never been taken out of the Part B before so come this October ANN MCDANIEL: Do we know that for a fact. AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's coming out of the Part B. ANN MCDANIEL: Do we know that RSA didn't keep any Part B. ANN MCDANIEL: I guess we don't know that. ANN MCDANIEL: we don't. So we will have to see. AUDIENCE MEMBER: That would be nice to know. Does ACL know that? Can ACL answer whether that 1.8 to two percent of Part B funds that are going to be used for training and TA for SILCs that comes off of the top of the Part B funds if that means we all should be planning to take a 1.8 to two percent cut in our Part B because that would sure be nice to know for October 1st. TIM BEATTY: I think Darrell already answered that. Because we already have taken the funds out off the top. And the grant has already been awarded to ILRU for the SILC-NET. So the funds have been used as of October 1 and SILC-NET is now operating and using that money. ANN MCDANIEL: Tim do you know whether they had an impact on individual states? Are they going to see a difference from last year to this year in the amount of the appropriation? TIM BEATTY: Yes, the amount went down just a little bit for every state because it comes across the top. AUDIENCE MEMBER: This is Emilio Vera from Washington State. My question is away from the money a little bit. We will have plenty of time and money to talk about this. I know tomorrow we will get more into the details of the plan. One that I come across quite often is when you say the SILC supervises the staff, number one I have never seen how volunteers that are not paid under HR laws can supervise the meaning of the word supervision, oversee and then I am okay with the word supervision as long as Mark Leeper is my chair because I know how he operates and the thing of that is and the whole council they supervise me. They don't supervise my staff. I supervise my staff on the day to day. And then the other part of it, that supervision part I think needs more technical assistance because I know there are some states that have that kind of a challenge. And some of us have had, you know, it would be a mess if people would be calling my staff to do things and it would not function as effectively as it could. So the definition of supervision to me means my council supervises me, I answer to the chairperson, my executive according to my performance plan which is the SPIL. And everything that relates to that. If I am out in the community misbehaving of course they should be yanking my chain. But the word supervision gets in the way so I think more technical assistance from ACL about exactly what does it mean would be welcome. So in the future when I don't have someone as tempered and smart as Mark as a chair so that we can have something to refer to. ANN MCDANIEL: I would completely agree with you that when you have a director, the board supervises the director and the director supervises the rest of the staff. But I would ask you to remember that SILCs are all over the place. There are SILCs that have one part time staff person that works for the DSU that provides their staff support. The law requires that they supervise that person. And that's the important part of that statement to me. If you are a nonprofit corporation and you have an executive director and a staff under that executive director you are in a very different situation than you are if your staff support comes from a state agency. But the SILC is still to have the authority to supervise that staff when they are working for them. AUDIENCE MEMBER: The statement that you made here at issue is that conditions or requirements may compromise the independence of the SILC is not permitted in regards to Part B money. Basically if it is you say well, just don't accept it well, what happens if you don't accept it? Where does the process go from there? Where is the compromise who has the oversight then to make an agreement in order to distribute Part C money? And the second part of the question is can you turn around and make an independent individual center sign a contract on top of that for Part B money? ANN MCDANIEL: Well, first of all the part you are talking about is not limited to Part B. It's the SILC resource plan funding, which may be Title One money. It may be Part B money it may be other money. It may be state money for example with the Part B money going to the centers, the DSU that you have already had should have had some sort of written agreement with the centers about that money before they give it to them. And yes, I would recommend that they continue to do that under a DSE. AUDIENCE MEMBERL: Well, if it comes to the point that a center indicates that there is something that will compromise their independence – ANN MCDANIEL: We are not talking about the center, the Part B money going to centers that's not what this section is referring to. This section is referring to the SILC resource plan. So there can't be anything in that agreement that compromises the independence and the autonomy of the SILC. AUDIENCE MEMBER: If there is what happens after that. ANN MCDANIEL: You have to negotiate your way out of it just the way you negotiate the amount of money that you are going to get. And you go back to the law and you say the law says you cannot compromise our autonomy and our independence. And if the state agency is difficult about it then in my state I would be talking to the relationships with folks that I have in the governor's office and saying this is what they are doing and it's not in compliance with federal law. AUDIENCE MEMBER: That's basically what I am looking for is what happens when you and I sit here and argue across the room who is right and who is wrong, then who is the intermediary, the arbitrator in the decision to make a decision has to who is right, who is wrong and whether or not who should get the money on the basis of their argument. Because otherwise as it stands you can argue until the cows come home and there is no money being distributed. ANN MCDANIEL: The answer to that is my favorite answer to most questions these days which is it depends. It depends on who it is that you are working with to get the money. And which state agency you are talking about. But it also depends on which source of money you are talking about and it depends on the relationship that you have from ACL for example from the Independent Living Administration and from your governor's office and you pull in whatever you need to pull in because you have the federal law behind you. KELLY BUCKLAND: So another thing that I would add is that the resource plan is part of the state plan so if there's something in the resource plan that compromises the independence of the SILC then you shouldn't be signing the SPIL. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I want go back to the training. You are talking about putting training money into the resource plan. This is training the SILCs, right? So I can say when I first joined a SILC I didn't know anything about independent living. In fact a month prior to that I thought it was about nursing homes and I have been in a chair for 30 years. I never heard of independent living and I lived in three different states. I can say how important it would be to have some consistent training of what independent living is. If somebody can put something together for your particular state, but a canned program for people living across the country is that there kind of idea that that's the kind of thing you are going to do in terms of training SILC members. ANN MCDANIEL: That's what SILC-NET does and I think that's a beautiful way to close this portion of today.