ROUGHLY EDITED COPY
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A National Onsite Two‑in‑One Training Opportunity
CIL‑NET Training
Assisting Individuals to Find Affordable, 
Accessible, Integrated Housing
Renaissance Chicago Downtown Hotel
One West Wacker Drive 
Chicago, Illinois
Tuesday, August 7, 2012
8:50 a.m. ‑ 4:45 p.m.

 

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This text is being provided in a rough draft format.  Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.   
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>> RICHARD PETTY:  Okay.  Good morning, everyone.
(Audience responds.)
>> RICHARD PETTY:  I'm not from Chicago, but let me welcome you to Chicago.  Let me welcome you to our training on housing, actually two trainings on housing.  I'm Richard Petty, and I direct the IL NET, which is a project of ILRU.  ILRU is in Houston.  And I bring greetings from Lex Frieden and other staff at ILRU and also ILRU's IL NET team.  And I would like to acknowledge one of the people from ILRU who is here, and that's Darrell Jones.  And Darrell Jones' fingerprints and handprints and lettering are all over this training because she is the principal designer of trainings that we offer at ILRU, so I wanted to acknowledge Darrell.
ILRU is assisted in operating the IL NET, ably assisted by our partners at the National Council on Independent Living.  And here with us are Tim Fuchs and Leah and Eleanor, and they will be assisting in this training.
NCIL is responsible for on location and Web trainings that we offer, and Tim Fuchs leads that work, and we also appreciate the work of the staff at NCIL in support of this project.
Our other partners in this project are APRIL, the Association of Programs for Rural Independent Living, Billy and Kathy and April.  And we are also supported by Utah State University.  Judith Holt is here.  She is our project evaluator.  I'm not sure that she is in the room, but she will be here. 
So we are really pleased to do this training.  Housing is one of the issues that comes up more often as we survey the field, as we talk to people.  It is a pervasive, persistent problem that prevents people from living independently and living as well as they might in the community.  And you know that, and that's why you're here.  But we know that, and that's why we've tried to bring together a really excellent group of trainers, and I'll be introducing them a little bit later on.  So that's why we're here.
We are going to be working you guys very hard.  You're going to have long days.  And you're going to be absorbing a lot of information.  And that's as it should be, because we just have a little bit of time to give you a lot of information from some excellent trainers.  So we also encourage you to get out and experience some of Chicago.  It's a great place.  It's a great city.  And we're right in the heart of a lot of dining, a lot of restaurants, art and parks, and everything else.  And it seems to be, from what I can tell from walking around the area, it seems to be fairly accessible, and so it ought to be a nice place to be for a few days.  So try to get out and experience some of the city.
One of the other things that we do and have always done at IL NET trainings is to provide meals as part of the training, because it helps in terms of learning.  We see it as something of an accommodation for those of us with disabilities.  It makes it easier to get to and from, and it cuts down on the time of travel during lunches.  And we've always wanted to do that, and we felt like it was a welcoming thing that we could do that would make what is an otherwise really intense training experience a little more enjoyable.  And so we have always done that.
And it's important to note that things are changing as far as the federal government is concerned and how the federal government treats meals, and because of some scandals that were part of the federal government's own activities, and not as far as we know part of contractors, there have been some abuses of meal services, some elaborate conferences and things like that.
And so now not only has the federal government clamped down on their own staff, but they've also clamped down on those of us who are federally funded.  So it may be that in the future we're no longer going to be able to provide meals, and we've had a little bit of flexibility as we conclude this grant cycle.  We're ending a five‑year cycle of the IL NET here at the end of September.  So for these two trainings that you're going to participate in and one more, we are going to continue meals because hotel contracts were already negotiated, but we also have an obligation to make those essential parts of the training, so we're going to be having activities during lunch.  We're going to be doing several things, and we'll be explaining those later.
So it means that we're able to continue with meals, but it also means that there has to be a little bit of work during that time too, and we're just balancing that out and going to get through this in the best way that we can and appreciate your patience with that.
So a lot to be said about an issue that we shouldn't have to talk about very much, but, you know, we are.
So I guess just to reframe a little bit more about the IL NET before we get started, we provide training and consulting to Centers for Independent Living and Statewide Independent Living Councils.  We have done that now for almost 20 years at ILRU with our partners, and over the last five years, it's not only been NCIL, who has not only been with us since the beginning, but also APRIL.  And you will know our trainings not only from our location trainings, but also online trainings.  We do about 12 to 15 webinars each year.  We also do online trainings, which are three‑week, four‑week courses, that people can participate in.  We have a rich array of Web resources.  We encourage you to use those.  Tim will walk about the Wiki that goes along with this training.  That's a Web page that has constantly changing content related to the training and it's going to be a wonderful resource for you.  After you leave, you can go and get the materials and you will have updated information as time goes along.  So we work very hard to have the most comprehensive set of resources available for Centers for Independent Living and Statewide Independent Living Councils, and we're always eager to have your feedback, and we're going to be asking for your feedback formally and informally also as to what's useful and helpful for you and that's going to be some of the meal time activities that I mentioned earlier.  We will just use that as an opportunity.
I mentioned also that there are a lot of great and fun things to do in Chicago.  Chicago is an important city for so many reasons.  And, you know, I think back this morning, I walked by Millennium Park and Grant Park where a victory celebration was celebrated for a sitting president.  And I have walked by a lot of historical places and up and down Michigan Avenue, and that's important.  It's nice to be in that kind of city.  But one of the most important reasons for those of us in the independent living movement is that Access Living here.  And that's one of the premier Centers for Independent Living, and you're going to be able to benefit, learn from some of the staff of Access Living.  And they will be here on Thursday and Friday, and they'll be following our excellent trainers that I will introducing here in just a minute.
But also you will have a chance to go to Access Living.  We will have transportation here after the day ends ‑‑ not today, but that is Tuesday?  Tomorrow, Tuesday.  After we're finished Tuesday, and Tim will say more about that.  But take advantage of the chance to see one of the great Centers for Independent Living while you're here.
Okay.  I'm going to turn things over to Tim, and Tim will do some housekeeping, and then get us going.  And Tim, I will ‑‑ if you want, when you are through, I will take it from back in the back and introduce our presenters.  
So thank you, everyone, and welcome again to Chicago and to our training.
(Applause.)
>> TIM FUCHS:  Thank you.  So welcome, everybody, and thanks.  The good news is, your breakfast this morning is sponsored because you were willing to sit here and listen to Richard and I talk for 25 minutes, so we really appreciate that.  Richard mentioned the Wiki briefly, so I want to talk about some miscellaneous things before we start this morning that are relevant to the training for the next four days.  
First and foremost, you have a large packet in front of you with all of the PowerPoints, all of the handouts, all of the materials we're going to discuss over the next four days in both the assisting individuals and the expanded housing trainings.  But it's important to note that on the Wiki page, all of these materials are available electronically as well.  And we have resolved the issue of ‑‑ some of you tried to go to the Wiki in the last few days before you traveled to Chicago, and you saw it wasn't up, and you couldn't access the materials.  That's fixed, so they're up now.  
The really neat thing about the Wiki is it's ever evolving.  So if there are new handouts that we discuss, new resources that people request to go on the Wiki, we can put them on the Wiki.  One thing that I know is often requested that we will put up there is the participant list so that you all can see who's in the room, how you can contact them, so you can meet people, discuss ideas, discuss solutions.  You can contact them after the training.  That's just one example.  But all these materials will be up on the Web as well.  So that's not only for you all in the room, but as you share your experience with the trainers, you talk about these concepts with people back at your centers, we want you to share them with other people.  So it's a free site.  It's all up there, so please let other people at your centers know, other people in your community know that this resource is available and they can access that.
The other thing I want to talk about this morning is the evaluations.  So in your packets, in the front piece of that folder, there's something called the precourse survey.  It's a green sheet.  If you haven't already begun to fill that out, please do that now.  We take these trainings very seriously.  We want to make sure that you're enjoying them and that they're useful and that you're learning too.
So the precourse survey is just to see, what do you know about these issues now coming in the room today?  You came here, so clearly you're kind of indicating we have something to learn about this, we want some new ideas.  So we're going to see where you are now, and then at the end of tomorrow, you'll take a post course on the assisting individuals piece.  This is technically two trainings in one this week.  And then at the end of tomorrow, you will also fill out a more traditional satisfaction survey, and that's the what did you think part, what did you like.  
And then when you come in Thursday morning, you will do another precourse on the systems piece, on the expanding housing piece, and we'll fill out another post course at the end.  They're short.  They're not difficult.  There's no right or wrong ‑‑ well, there are right or wrong answers, but don't worry about it.  Just be honest.  And, you know, it just helps us make our trainings even better.  So again that green sheet, the precourse survey, if you haven't started to fill that out, please do that now.
Also, on every table there's a microphone, and it's really, really important that we use the microphone when we're speaking.  We put one at every table to make it really easy for you.  They're push to talk.  So you just tap them.  You don't have to push hard.  A little green light comes on.  If the light is on, your mike is working.  If it's not, just hit it.
And the reason we're using the microphones is not only a convenience, it's also an access issue.  There are people that are hard of hearing that are participating in the training.  We're also recording the training.  And if people are on the other side of the room, it makes it much easier to hear.  So even if you can project, if you have a very loud voice, we're really going to ask that you use a mike.  We'll all try to remember to do that.  I would appreciate that if we could do that during the week.
Another access issue I want to talk about is multiple chemical sensitivities.  This is a scent‑free environment.  I know a lot of you are aware of that, but we really need to avoid any scented products, perfumes, colognes, while we're here.  I know that's difficult in a hotel where the toiletries they provide are usually scented.  But especially perfumes, colognes, heavy scents, we cannot use those while we're here.  That's a really important accommodation.  
The nearest restrooms to our training room, it is a bit of a hike.  I apologize.  They're back towards the elevators.  So if you go towards the elevators and you see the little cubbies with the seating area, there's a sign that says restrooms to the left.  They're just to the left before you get to the elevators.  And for service animals, we've been doing our best to find a good relief area for service animals.  In front of the hotel, there are a number of flower beds.  The ones to the left as you come out of the exit are heavily planted.  There are some flower beds towards to the right towards the intersection that may be better.  And I know ‑‑ I've been talking to Richard Petty, who has a service animal, about this issue.  So he has some ideas.  If anybody has a service animal here and wants to talk to him about that, he offered to do that.
I want to mention a little bit more about this tour at Access Living.  We're really, really thrilled to be here in Chicago.  We're thrilled that Access Living is hosting this training, so to speak, in a sense that they've helped us find a hotel.  They helped us get settled.  They offered to do a tour.  We're actually going to have a reception over there after the tour tomorrow evening, on Wednesday.
And so to make it as easy as possible for everyone to get over there, because it will be a rather tight turnaround from the end of the day, we're going to go straight to Access Living, we have set up transportation.  So when we finish in here, we'll certainly have time for a restroom break, but it won't be much more time than that, and we can all just head outside.  There will be a number of vans.  Of course, they're accessible.  We'll go in waves over to Access Living.  And when you get over there, we'll start and do two tour groups.  So the staff of Access Living is going to ‑‑ and actually it will be some of our presenters for Thursday and Friday, so you can get to know them, have some familiar faces.  They will do a tour of the center, and then we'll all meet back in their conference center on the fourth floor, and there will be a very casual reception there.  It's not a lot of speaking.  It's really just a networking opportunity for you all to get to know some of the staff from Access Living, to be able to talk to them as well as to be able to talk to each other outside of the training environment, which is intense.  So it will just be a casual reception, and then about 7:00, 7:15, we'll have transportation back over here.
So that's the end of my notes.  I really do want to thank you all for being here.  I know it's difficult to travel.  Believe me, we deal with this too.  It's tough to get it approved.  It's tough to get time away from the office.  I think having a group of 50 people here from all over the country is a testament to the training and the trainers.  So I'm really excited to see you all.  I thank you for being here.  And with that I'm going to have Richard introduce our presenters for today.  Thanks.
>> RICHARD PETTY:  I apologize for doing this from the back of the room, but this will work a little bit better this way.  And I just begin by saying, as I do this introduction, that one of the privileges of being able to do this work is to work with folks like Darrell Jones and Tim Fuchs and all of our other partners, and it's especially gratifying to know that we can work with outstanding trainers, like the two people that I am about to introduce.
Ann Denton is with Advocates for Human Potential, and we have worked with Ann for quite some time, and back to the early days of Olmstead implementation when Ann was doing great work there and we at ILRU were supporting that work and with many things that we were doing, we had many projects and activities that intersected.  And since that point, Ann has taught in our location training for us on housing in Indianapolis ‑‑ no Minneapolis.  Milwaukee.  You know, somewhere north of Houston. 
(Chuckles.)
>> RICHARD PETTY:  And also she teaches our online housing course.  And it's an excellent course.
She is going to be covering with her cotrainer individual ‑‑ assistance to individuals in finding housing.  And with the courses that I have taught online, with, as I said earlier, with the feedback we get from you, it's so crucial and such a huge barrier to transition and a huge barrier to independent living in the communities, that it is an issue that we just must address, and Ann is the perfect person to lead us in that.  Her cotrainer ‑‑ 
>> ANN DENTON:  No pressure, right?
>> RICHARD PETTY:  Her cotrainer is Pat Tucker, who is also with Advocates for Human Potential, and Advocates for Human Potential is an organization that supports persons with psychiatric disabilities, and Pat was one of the authors of the SAMHSA document on housing, is also an acknowledged expert, has expertise in supportive housing, as does Ann.  So they bring a wealth of knowledge and information, and I commend them to you.
By the way, Pat is a gifted singer.  And as am I.  And Pat and I will be doing a duet later.  So you can look forward to that. 
I say that very much tongue in cheek.  So ... so Ann and Pat, welcome.  And take it away.
>> ANN DENTON:  Thank you.  Thank you very much.
Richard, I want to say how much I appreciate ‑‑ Pat and I both appreciate the opportunity to be here.  This is such important work that we're doing, that you're doing, and we hope to be of service to you in your efforts to do it well.
And Pat and I ‑‑ and as you can tell others in the room, we have a light touch.  We try to make it humorous and try to work in some appreciation of the bizarre, which is what you have to have if you're going to do this kind of work.  Would you agree with me on that?  I'm just trying to see who's out there?  Yeah, okay.  Because our systems are not set up well to help people, and we end up being the people who patch it together on behalf of the people that we're working for.
So my job here in the very beginning is to sort of set the stage and talk a little bit about what we're going to do.  So I wanted to actually have you look at your books and tell you a little bit about what we've got in store for these first two days.
As has already been said, the training that Pat and I are doing is really, really focused on what does it take to help an individual person identify what they want to do and then support them in making those choices around where they want to live?
Excuse me.
The second two days, that is Access Living.  They're really going to talk about some of the system barriers and some of the system ‑‑ I like to think of them as vulnerable parts in the system, where if we push hard enough we can get the resources that we need to make community living a real choice and something that's actually there for people.  There's going to go a little overlap.  As we said last night in our setup session, it's hard to talk about housing from our perspective, it's hard to talk about individuals who make transitions without talking about some of the system barriers or resources.  It's also going to be hard for them to talk about system stuff without bringing it back down to real people.  So I think you're going to get some overlap.  We ask for your forgiveness in advance on all of that.
What you have in your book is Pat and I are really going to talk this morning about some of the basics.  I want to introduce to you the idea about a housing specialist and what a housing specialist can and can't do with and for someone.  Pat is going to do an overview of public policy and some basic housing concepts.  Again this is one of those blurred areas.  You can't do the work, or your teams can't do the work they need to do unless they understand how a Housing Choice voucher works, right?  So we're going to provide some of that information.  Access Living will also probably provide it from a different level on Thursday and Friday.
We want to talk to you about the types of housing that people can choose from.  We want to talk to you about how do you make choice real in a constrained environment, because no matter what, we understand that choice is the driver.  Individual choice about what people want to do and setting up what they need the way they prefer it set up is the driver.  If we don't pay attention to choice and we're making choices for people, what happens is that we end up making choices that people don't support, and it does not work for them.  It's just the bottom line.
Tomorrow we're going to talk more about things like ‑‑ well, this afternoon we're going to talk about affordability.  How do we help make housing affordable for people?  And then tomorrow we're really going to talk about the elements of a transition and how to support people in preparing for that transition and making that transition.
If you look at the very back of your book, you will find in the pouch at the back, the pocket at the back, a copy of Choose, Get, Keep, Integrated Housing.  A lot of the stuff that Pat and I are going to be talking to you about, this is a book that ILRU did five years ago maybe, and we're talking really talking to you from this book.  And a lot of the handouts that you have in your packet come out of this book.  And I think ‑‑ I hope that you find it to be a good resource, and it will be Tim on Wiki right, it is on Wiki or it will be.  It's already online, but this will make it even more accessible for you.
Okay.  So my very first job is really kind of a fun job.  See, I forgot all about my slides.  This is how it's going to go today.
>> PAT TUCKER:  You missed it, and I accidentally hit the button and it went to like slide 15 already, so I had to go back.  If somebody was looking at ‑‑ I accidentally put my hand on the computer.  So it's going to be that kind of a day.
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  Well, as long as we establish that right there, when we were being introduced, I said to Richard, no pressure, right?  We will do our very best to tailor this training to what it is that you need.  But we're going to have a little fun while we do it.
This is us.  We've been introduced already.  I just really like that picture of me because it makes me look about five years younger than I actually am.  So I had to put it up.  What I really want to know is who are you?  And I really, I think we are establishing over the next four days, we have the privilege to be in a room with 50 people who are very interested, I hope passionately interested, in housing.  That's a learning community.  And I hope when you leave that that learning community continues beyond these four days.  We have four days to get to know each other, and I think it's worth it, the expenditure of time and effort, to learn about who you are.
So I'm going to do introductions.  I want you to do introductions of yourself.  I want to know who you are, your name, what is your role in terms of helping people transition.  So are you a housing specialist, are you a program director, are you an executive director, are you ‑‑ who you are?  What do you do?  What are you hoping for from these four days, and then finally I would like you to give yourself an assessment of where you are.  This is part of the pretest, but we just want to do it out loud too.  Are you a beginner on housing?  Are you an intermediate level of expertise around housing?  Or would you classify yourself as an advanced practitioner, if you will, of around housing issues?
So then if we have ‑‑ well, let's just go with that.  I was going to do something cute.  But let's just go with that.  Which table would like to go first with introductions?
All right.  Very good. 
>> (Inaudible.) 
(Laughter.)
>> PAT TUCKER:  Should they use the microphones?
>> ANN DENTON:  Use the microphones, please.  Use the microphones. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  If it's green, it's on. 
>> ANN DENTON:  Yeah, if it's green, it's on.  
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  So I am Julia Sumner.  I am the housing specialist, excuse me, through the Center for Disability Rights and Regional Center for Independent Living in Rochester, New York.  My role there is a large part community educator.  I do a lot of collaboration with some of the larger property management organizations as well as private landlords in terms of accessibility.  I do a very small amount of client work.  What am I hoping for from this class?  Well, I'm hoping to learn more about what's available in housing, and I would say that I am probably an intermediate.
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  All right.  Next. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Lisa.  I am from Independent Living in the Genesee region in western New York.  I am an IL specialist and group facilitator.  I work primarily with consumers.  I work with landlords and other subsidized agencies.
In my area I believe that I am intermediate to advanced, although certainly not on this level.  And I'm hoping to learn a lot more for my approximately seven counties to help bring in subsidized housing.  We're a very farm like area and housing is incredibly difficult for low income and disabled individuals.
>> ANN DENTON:  When we get to talking about resources, the USDA housing resources will be particularly appropriate. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Sarah Douglas.  I am from Options for Independence in Auburn, New York.  I am the housing and youth advocate.  So I do a lot of youth transitional work as well as housing work with private landlords.
We have a severe lack of affordable, accessible housing in our county, so I am trying to work with landlords, primarily private landlords to increase that at this point.
I think that I'm on about an intermediate level in my community. 
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  Thank you. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Angel Harris, and I work at Disability Resource Center in Knoxville, Tennessee.  And my role there is independent living specialist.  And I'm going to be starting to work in the housing program soon, and I'm definitely very new at all this.  And so I'm hoping to learn whatever I can in this class.
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  All right.  Hello, everyone.  My name is Christopher Walsh.  I'm with the Independent Living Center in Troy, New York.  As far as my job title, it's either advocate or independent living specialist.  Until recently I had done a lot of stuff with Social Security benefits and work incentives.  I have a little bit of experience with housing.  I worked with the local housing authority in the City of Troy.  I say I may be intermediate, and basically I'm hoping to learn a hell of a lot more than I do now.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.  I'll Troy from Houston, Texas.  And I am from the Center of Independent Living.  I am the resource specialist.  I have housing goals.  I obtain reasonable accommodation.  My role additionally is to network with city agencies in the housing and community development department, the Houston department association and the housing center to advocate for more integrated, accessible and affordable housing.
What I am hoping to get from this class is increased knowledge of how to assist consumers of the housing, because the housing goals for people with disabilities is one of the ongoing challenges, and there's never enough information that we can use to help them to know how to remain in the community in their own apartment.
>> ANN DENTON:  And you're advanced? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yes.
>> ANN DENTON:  He's a graduate of the online class.  I'm hoping he's advanced. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Kim from the New York association on independent living, the organization of the independent living centers.  I'm the project coordinator for housing education project that increases affordable, accessible, and integrated housing, and we have our whole new staff of nine folks here from independent living centers.  So we're all going to be working from the same knowledge base, and what I'm hoping is that everyone can really take this training and go back into their communities and work our program.  We're particularly interested in a systemic work, the second part of the training.  So thanks.
>> ANN DENTON:  Thank you.  All right.  Which table wants to be next?  All right.  Right here.  Use your mike. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hello.  I'm from center for independent living in New York, New York City.  My role in Sidney is policy analyst, Director of Advocacy.  I know a lot of the law, but I don't know anything else.
>> ANN DENTON:  Well, you can help us with the law and we'll help you with everything else.  This group will help you. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm hoping to learn more how to work with consumers on the issues, people with disabilities specifically on the issues of how to seek services and things of that nature, and more on how to be more culturally sensitive on housing aspects, how to ensure that it's integrated, but at the same time be culturally aware.
>> ANN DENTON:  Right.  A balance indeed. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That's it. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Peter.  I'm from the Rockland Independent Living Center, about a half hour north of where she works.  And I am ‑‑ well, I started about a year and a half ago, and I am the housing education advocate.  And I'm still learning.  I mean, there's so much to do.  It's very frustrating.  I get at least six people a week coming in that are homeless, and the only thing that we can tell them is what the community tells us.  Get on the waiting list for any facility, two to five years, you know.  It's very frustrating, and I'm hoping here that I'm going to learn how to create and find housing for these people.  That's why I'm here.
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  Let me just stop, because this is how it's going to go.  How many people in this room have read your community's Consolidated Plan?
>> PAT TUCKER:  You're stealing my thunder.
>> ANN DENTON:  Oh, I'm sorry.  Because that's ‑‑ yeah, okay.  Good.  That's good.  That was actually a fair number of hands.
Whoops.  All right.  I'm on this side.  So you can ‑‑ I will pick this table next.  See how I constrain choice right there?  
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  We'll see if this works.  My name is Andrew.  I'm the public policy advocate with the disability center in Salt Lake City in the Utah PNA.  I'm here because we have a Fair Housing outreach grant for this year.  And I'm hoping to get two things out of this training.  One is to learn more of the programmatic side of housing, because I am a relative newbie to all this because I spent most of my time on the policy side.  And also because of that, to come back with two or three policy ideas that we could pursue and advocate for with either state agencies or the legislature.
>> ANN DENTON:  If we don't get to that in this class, we will talk about it over lunch because Pat and I are full of ideas about what the legislatures ought to do. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Chad.  I'm the chief operating officer, independent living center in upstate New York.
I currently oversee coordination of our housing education program that Ken was referring to.  Our agency has facilitated home modifications, environmental modifications, probably a hundred or 150, and 150 counties in central work, wells provide a variety of Medicaid waiver centers that aim to promote community living.
So that's the relationship, and you know, I acquired bits and pieces of knowledge over the past five years, my role as an advocate, and also by way of various administrative functions.  So I'm hoping to fill all the gaps that sort of exist to my nontraditional education of housing. 
>> ANN DENTON:  I think the only way to get a really good education in housing is a nontraditional way.  Go ahead.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you, Chad.  So I'm Megan.  I'm from Westchester disabled on the move, which is an independent living center, also part of the New York contingency here.  So I've been there for a number of years, splitting my time between systems advocacy, so, you know, well working on systemic legislative issues, but really I think focusing, we work on a whole array of different issues, you know, I have worked a lot in housing on that, in that network, and also working with consumers, helping them find housing in a network that has housing in the whole country, trying to find affordable and accessible housing that's integrated is a trick, so any ideas or suggestions that I can get would be greatly appreciated.  And we'll now be working on the program Ken talked about, housing education.  So I just think this training will be a really great way to kick that off and give us some fresh ideas and fresh perspectives and I'm looking forward to it.
>> ANN DENTON:  That's great.  Thank you.  And would you count yourself advanced? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Yeah, I guess so.
>> ANN DENTON:  It sounded like it. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: Good morning.  My name is David Ward.  I'm from Oklahoma City.  I am the program director for the my life my choice program.  My program was born from the living choice program, which is a grant that we have in our state.  I'm not familiar with a lot of housing concepts or authority.  I've listened to a lot of conference calls but I still don't know what I'm doing.  I'm here to do, because like Chad mentioned we promote a lot of community living for our members.  It's kind of hard to bring a lot of the population out of the nursing home and put them in housing when we don't really have much of it.  So it's a lot.  And so I'm just here to soak up as much information as possible.  Thank you.  You two have already been introduced. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Everyone, I'm Darrell Jones from ILRU, and I'm part of the IL NET team that put together this training, and I used to know something about housing when I worked in an independent living center, and now I have to rely on experts such as Ann and Pat and all of you to keep me in touch with what's happening in the independent living field so that we can provide the training and supports that all of you need to try to do your jobs.
So very excited to have you all here. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good morning.  I'm Deborah.  I'm the director of the Housing Choice Voucher Program.  I guess I'm in the minority here.  I've been doing it for many years, actually 29.  And I'm actually here to learn the other side of it.  We recently engaged in conversation with the Oklahoma healthcare authority to enter into a partnership to help transition some of those people from nursing homes and assisted living facilities, and we're going to try and do it outside of the Section 811 grant.  We think that there are Tom rules tied it to, and we think we can accomplish the same thing without all of the regulatory oversight.
>> ANN DENTON:  Very good.  We're glad you're here.  We can give you some ideas, and then we can go back to our own state and say Oklahoma is doing it.  Oklahoma is thinking about doing it.  Forgiveness not permission is the way to go.  Who wants to be first at this table? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I can go first.  My name is Maggie Smith.  I'm a fair housing investigator with HUD.
>> ANN DENTON:  Yay. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm new.  Well, I'm new to Fair Housing.  I'm new to HUD.  I'm just here to learn.  And I'm really happy to be here. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Buenos dias.  (Inaudible) I am a local person.  I work at Access Living.  It's a Center for Independent Living here in Chicago.  And I've been with Access Living already more than I can remember.  And I would like to welcome everyone here to Chicago.  It's a great city.  And my job at Access Living has been for many years to work around housing policy at the national, state, and local levels.  We've been doing this already for many years.  And I'm here to share information with you and to also learn a lot of your issues, local issues, whatever you might be from, and also to kind of entertain you as well.  And that's my favorite part.  So welcome again.
>> ANN DENTON:  Entertainment is going to be a theme.  Next. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, my name is Lindsay.  I'm the director of public policy for the New York association of independent living.  I organize our state advocacy for increasing affordable, accessible and integrated housing.  I am looking forward to the systems approach to expanding housing options on the third and fourth day.  I don't have any experience providing services to individuals. 
>> ANN DENTON:  Like I said, during the first two days, Pat and I are going to focus what it takes to do the transitions, but we're going to be hard pressed to stay out of policy entirely.  So we will play it by ear. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Victoria.  I'm a housing specialist at the ability center in Toledo.  We work with Ohio's home choice program, transitioning people out of nursing homes into the community.  I consider myself an intermediate.  I've been really fortunate to learn a lot over the past year, but there is still a lot of barriers that counsel in finding accessible, affordable housing, especially in places where people actually wanted to live.  So I'm hoping to find some more resources. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, I work for a center in Odessa, Texas.  I'm the ILS there.  And I know zero about housing, but it's my passion and I really want to learn.
>> ANN DENTON:  Good. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Kathy, and I'm on the board of the Able Center for Independent Living.  I also am part of the Texas consumer advocacy team.  So we're looking into what we can do to improve housing in the basin.  We work with the mid land basin and 17 counties.  And we haven't made any inroads into providing housing, and that's what we're looking at.  And although we have a low cost of living, our housing, because of the oil boom, has doubled in a year.  So some of the rents have doubled, and their waiting.
>> ANN DENTON:  (inaudible) and charge double what the fair market rent is, probably. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  It just doubled overnight.  They are putting people up in hotel rooms.  They're building cities, you know.  Fabricated housing to just put people in.  So we're looking at both of those.
>> ANN DENTON:  All right. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  And I'm a very beginner.
>> ANN DENTON:  I was going to say, advanced, intermediate or beginner?  Okay.  So I think we've done this side of the room.  So let's go over to the fun side, the other way, right?  Who wants to start?  Would you like to start?  You're making a face, it's like, oh, no, don't pick on me. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is ‑‑
>> ANN DENTON:  Is it on? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Mavis Raven.  I'm from ‑‑
>> ANN DENTON:  Closer. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm from the Independent Living Center in Dallas, Texas.  I'm a relocation community living specialist.  And I'm here to learn.  I would consider myself an intermediate to advanced person.  I relocate people out of nursing homes to the community.
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  Great organization.  One that I'm familiar with.  
Okay.  How about this table?  Oh, I have a hand.  Wait a minute.  Volunteer trumps everything.  All right. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, I'm Darrell Christianson from Able Arizona bridge to Independent Living in Phoenix, and I'm the vice president of community integration.  I am here to get three tips on how to better interact with developers.  We recently had a success where a developer came in at a project of 28 units and said that they would do four of them.  And I said, well, let's look at the design and see what we can do.  And by the time we were done talking all 28 units now are accessible.  And they have two other projects that they're going to make totally accessible as well.  So it's the relationship building, and I want to be able to learn how to even enhance that partnership ability, and so in about 25, 30 years worth of lives with living, I think I'm advanced.
>> ANN DENTON:  I imagine so, yeah.  You all are going to be teaching each other.  Pat and I are just going to stand back.
>> PAT TUCKER:  Nice. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Joe.  I'm actually just crashing your party for a couple hours.  I'm working with Melissa and Erin, who will introduce themselves, in Indianapolis.  I work mostly on home ownership and home owning strategies and primarily with people with developmental disabilities.  I run an organization in Portland, Oregon, called community vision, and for years we've worked on homeownership and asset building and worked in some other states and it's fun to come and just sit and listen to some other housing for a while.  We do some work on rental housing and those types of projects too, but that's been the main body of our work is coming up with some of the second mortgages and other ways to help people purchase homes.  So thank you for letting me sit in for a little bit today.
>> ANN DENTON:  You're welcome. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thanks.
>> ANN DENTON:  And we'll call on you.  Use no protection. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Erin.  I'm from Houston, Texas.  You will be introduced to Melissa here in a minute.  I'm the development director, and so I am here to kind of get a groundwork for some grant writing I am going to be doing.  We're in the early planning stages of developing a housing program, so I am a beginner. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Kate.  And I am also from accessibility.  I'm an independent living specialist.  I work primarily with seniors.  I am definitely a beginner with housing, so I am interested in learning about what resources are currently available and how to advocate for further resources. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, we brought a whole slew of people this morning.  I'm Melissa, and as Erin said, we're in the beginning stages of actually building a housing program.  We've been doing it for a long time in terms of advocating for people and testifying at Consolidated Plan hearings and getting people in housing, but we've never really had a unified effort and so we are just in the very beginning stages of building a comprehensive housing program, so I'm here to basically learn everything to do and not to do, and I am ‑‑ I'm pretty much a beginner, intermediate to beginner.  Beginner.
>> ANN DENTON:  I don't think so.  But we'll just go with that.  We'll accept your self‑assessment.  Okay.  So where was I?  You've already gone.  How about this table? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, I'm Sarah from independence now.  I'm the executive director there.  We cover two counties that surround Washington, D.C.  So very suburban area, and I love listening to two to three year waiting lists.  We have an eight year waiting list, and they haven't even opened our list to get on them in five plus years in either county.  We have 15 people right now to leave nursing facilities, and they cannot leave because there is nowhere to go.
>> ANN DENTON:  That's sounds like the Olmstead case, does it not? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  It does.  I think ‑‑ oh, I'm a beginner for sure, yeah.  Thank you. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Thank you.  I'm Mike, I'm the director of the image center.  We serve Baltimore city and county and Hartford county in Maryland.  I'm definitely a beginner, but we really need, as we develop programs to help people come out of nursing homes, we need to find housing resources for them to go to.  I have heard some things, that there are some people doing things out there.  I was intrigued by the Texas folks here, because I heard somebody a few weeks ago say they helped 1200 people in a year find housing moving out of facilities.  I want to find you people, and I want to know what the heck you're doing.  I want to ‑‑ but, you know, we need to understand how to develop the resource to get people into homes that they can live in and move them out of nursing homes, because otherwise all of our efforts to move people out are just wasted at this point.
>> ANN DENTON:  I want to put in a plug for the Texas money follows the person program.  1200 is a small number.  Over the years that the money follows the person program has been in existence, they've transitioned about 15,000 people out of institutions. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  So you're going to tell us their secrets.
>> ANN DENTON:  I am going to tell you the secrets.  A little bit less than half of those people go to assisted living, but the rest of them go either home or independent living.  And they have done what I call shake the tree.  They have shaken the tree at the state level and they have been super at the local level and they have worked really well with housing authorities to get those resources together.  In addition to that, they have put together ‑‑ and this is probably the most difficult part ‑‑ a coherent timeline between what housing agencies need to make a move possible beyond resources, paperwork, et cetera, and what the waiver programs need to provide services, and having that come out in the same space and time is one of the most challenge is aspects of helping people transition.  I see some nodding, but, yes?  Yes.  Go ahead, sorry. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  No, that's perfectly all right.  I agree with Michael.  I'm very interested to learn more from all of you.  My name is Marcia.  I formerly was the executive director of a center for independent living for 20 years in Virginia.  I recently began working for a state agency in Virginia.  One of my roles there is working with housing, really serving as a liaison to disseminate information to Centers for Independent Living, brain injury programs, statewide independent living.  Most recently Virginia just entered into a settlement agreement with the Department of Justice.
>> ANN DENTON:  Over Olmstead? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Over Olmstead, yes.  So and so we're very interested in knowing whatever resources we can have to cobble together housing resources to get people out of institutions.
So working with that, working with the governor's housing policy initiatives, and really just trying to filter information to as many community resources as possible.
So that's one of the reasons why I'm here.  Very eager to learn.  I would rate my knowledge as intermediate, I guess.
>> ANN DENTON:  That's great.  One of the things I did many years ago was consult with the state of Virginia and their first Olmstead plan, back when the states were writing Olmstead plans just because they had to write a plan and they didn't really take it seriously, and I'm pleased that people are starting to take those things very seriously.
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, I'm the director of services manager at Vermont Center for Independent Living, and my purpose in being here is twofold.  One of the programs I manage is our peer advocate counseling program.  And I'm look for tools to assist our counselors in assisting people to move into independent living centers, and to understand the difference between a person directed approach and a person centered approach, because providers don't seem to understand that there's a difference.
In addition, I'm looking for systems that can be used, and for a moment ‑‑ I not only read our state's Consolidated Plan, but I also read the analysis of impediments to affirmatively furthering Fair Housing, and despite the fact that our state continues to list a lack of accessible, affordable housing as an impediment, they have not decided to approach it indifferently.  They continue to use the same old approach, which results in the same issue recurring time and again.
So I'm looking for a systems approach to encourage them to change. 
>> ANN DENTON:  Well, we'll touch on that, but you're really going to get that on Thursday and Friday, in a more targeted way.  But, you know, I'm all about ‑‑ I mean you've done a lot in systems and so has Pat, and Access Living has done a lot on transitions, so we're going to overlap a bit, but I will tell you that that because of the Department of Justice interest in Olmstead, and that it is suddenly becoming much less real for systems, and that that's leverage right there to bring people to the table to talk ‑‑ to talk about ‑‑ okay, we have these disparate systems.  They talk completely different languages.  How do we make that work and like I said over, how do we knit together a timeline, a pipeline, if you will, that people can travel through so they come out with services and housing within the same 30‑day period?
So, all right.  Last table, sorry.
>> PAT TUCKER:  That's not the last table.
>> ANN DENTON:  It's not.  Who did I skip?  Oh, my God, I skipped the center.
>> PAT TUCKER:  They're sitting there going, please, please, please, shut up.  
>> ANN DENTON:  I want you to be mad at her, not me.
>> PAT TUCKER:  You have a few tables.
>> ANN DENTON:  Who else have I skipped?
>> PAT TUCKER:  These two. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  We'll go last.
>> ANN DENTON:  I want the baby introduced as well.  How about this table?  Please forgive me.  Who would like to go first? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Keith.  I'm the associate director of the center for accessible living in Louisville, Kentucky, and I would say that I'm in the low end of the intermediate.  So I'm here.  I just really want to learn a lot.  The first thing I learned is that we should send all our consumers to Texas apparently.  The money follows the person program in Kentucky is the second biggest punch line in our state for disability services.  So I think in the last four years, they have transitioned about 10 to 12 people. 
>> ANN DENTON:  I just did a training for the Kentucky protection and advocacy system on Permanent Supportive Housing. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  And they will tell you what the number one punch line is, which is the Medicaid buy‑in program.  They have had to sue the state to get the three people that are on it on.
>> ANN DENTON:  I've heard a little bit about that.  And what do they call those?  The personal care homes? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Kentucky is a little different.
>> ANN DENTON:  Who's next?
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm with the Delta Center for resource living.  I'm the program manager there.  And the knowledge and understanding that I have there is just basically on Section 8.  So I have very little knowledge.  I'm just here to learn. 
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  Great.  Welcome. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Sherry Smith, and I'm also with the Delta Resource Center for Independent Living in Pine Bluff, Arkansas.  And I would say I'm probably an intermediate.  I would probably be advanced if they would stop changing the rules.
(Laughter.)
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  And the reason why I'm here is Arkansas, we work with the southeast Arkansas area, which is about 12 counties, and we're extremely, extremely, extreme ‑‑ I can't express that enough, and so options are really, really limited, and it's very frustrating.  I got into the independent living center actually as a transition ‑‑ I still transition people.  So I know quite a bit about housing, but the options to implement what I know are not there.  So it's just frustrating.  So I'm hoping to pick some people's brains and kind of see with a options we can get, because I worked recently with somebody with the mental health disability, and one of the problems was they were trying to lump them up with people with DD.  And so it was frustrate to go try to get them housing.
>> ANN DENTON:  Right.  And when we talk, I mean, for people who are in extremely rural areas who don't have, in those areas don't have housing stock, development strategies is going to be what we need to look at, how to shake the tree to do development. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good morning.  I'm Mike Davis.  I'm from Mobile, Alabama.  I'm director there at the center.  And actually I came for a number of reasons.  Basically though to learn from all of you.  We have had historically a disproportionate number of vouchers and so on and so forth that have not been distributed to people with disabilities versus the elderly in our area.  Our city recently received a contract to go into big manufacturing with air bus, and so it's going to mean billions of dollars is going to come through our city.  We anticipate then not just the employment base of persons with disabilities needing additional housing issues, but the influx of people who are coming to the area, and so we're concerned that we won't have adequate housing for again persons with disabilities.  And so I've got a housing and transitional specialist who is wanting direction from me, so I thought I better come up here and get some information.  So hopefully you guys can help us.
>> ANN DENTON:  I hope we can too.  You know, that's such ‑‑ it's an opportunity, a crisis statement.  You know, it's an opportunity because you've got this community change, and if you can grab on to a piece of that, that's great, yes!  But you can also be closed out if you're not aggressive. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, I'm Jeremy with the independent living resource center out of Jeff city, Missouri.  We serve seven rural counties.  Newly appointed ADA coordinator.  It's my role right now to get an accessibility and housing program up and running.  And so I'm looking for ideas.
>> ANN DENTON:  And beginner, intermediate, or advanced?
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I would say for the people that I work with, I'm intermediate.
>> ANN DENTON:  The most scared I've ever been was in a hotel room in Jefferson City, Missouri, when there was a tornado. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Larry from the center for accessible living from Louisville, Kentucky, and I'm actually the outreach specialist, so I am a real beginner here.  I'm here to learn whatever I can.
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  Thank you.  All right. 
>> PAT TUCKER:  What about this table?
>> ANN DENTON:  I keep walking by you.
>> PAT TUCKER:  They're getting smaller and smaller. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Hi, I'm Christine, and I am with the Colorado Springs independent living center.  I'm the independent living manager.  I'm fairly new.  Most of my experience was with developmentally disabled.  I thought I'm intermediate with housing.  I decided after sitting here I'm on the beginning spectrum.  I'm hoping to bring back excitement to my team being new and hoping to expand some of the housing opportunities that we might have in Colorado Springs to increase the options.
>> ANN DENTON:  Colorado has a fairly decent system around people who are homeless and targeting housing for that population, so that's kind of ‑‑ you're a step ahead I think at the system level, because you have people already engaged and interested in nontraditional households.  Go ahead. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm Dixie.  I'm director of the Independent Living Center in Colorado Springs, and we serve eight counties.  One of the biggest barriers in the city is we don't have a lot of accessible, affordable housing.  I want to learn more about it so I can bring it back to the center and do a lot more systems advocacy.
>> PAT TUCKER:  And your level? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Oh, yeah.  I'd say I'm just a little bit above beginner. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Rosita.  I work at a Center for Independent Living in St. Louis, Missouri.  I am the transition coordinator.  I work with money follows the person, getting people out of nursing homes, and also homeless transitions.  I think I'm pretty intermediate to advanced in housing.
>> ANN DENTON:  Advanced.  Good. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Lynn.  I'm in St. Louis as well.  I'm the housing coordinator, and I coordinate between homeowners and contractors to do home modifications.  I would say that I'm probably an intermediate.  And my goal here is to really help Rosita, primarily so that we can get more funding and different ways to provide more accessible units in transition. 
>> ANN DENTON:  It sounds like a lot of you know a lot about the resources available in communities, but we're going to go over that anyway, because not everybody is at the same level of expertise.  And, you know, the magic wand doesn't exist, but the correct and effective action is to be persistent and never let up, and no matter how many times they change the rules, you stay right with them, because if you can speak the housing language, you're already partway there to success. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good morning.  My name is Jocelin, and this is Jana, and she's only been on the job for two weeks, so she does not have a lot of experience.  She's an extreme beginner. 
I'm from the Southern Adirondack independent living center in New York, and now with Nile as part of the housing education program in New York, and I'm the outreach coordinator.  I'm assistant regional resource development specialist, the home and community based waivers, the nursing home transition and diversion and traumatic brain injury.  I'm on the money follows the person, the technology related to assistance for individuals with disabilities in multistate and federal ILC grants for our agency.  So I have kind of a broad experience.  I attend the local long term care councils and aging and disability networks, so I try to be involved with stakeholders within the community for housing and other advocacy issues as well as I do work with individuals through the waiver programs and the available housing dollars and environmental modifications through those.
So I feel like a beginner in this room with housing issues, beginner to intermediate, but I try very hard to develop relationships with our community and be involved, so I don't know exactly where I fall, but I'm excited about learning and trying to get as much information as possible to take on the new role with Nile.
>> ANN DENTON:  All right.  And we're happy to have ‑‑ and we're happy to have ‑‑ what's her name again? 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Jana.
>> ANN DENTON:  And we're happy to have Jana. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  My name is Debbie.  I'm with progressive independence in Norman, Oklahoma.  I'm not really sure what my title is.  I've been with the center now for 13 years, so my title has changed like numerous times.  I'm the case management supervisor over, it's called an advantage Medicaid waiver that we have, home and community based waiver.  We do a little bit of case management.  We also have a Shelter Plus Care grant through HUD that I help administer that.
What we came for, we knew this was going to be a great training.  I got to hear Ann before in I think it was Milwaukee, but when my associate director Helen was talking to our executive director Jeff about this training, Helen said, you know those trainings are great, but wouldn't it be neat if we had other people at the table that we want in the state to come to the training too?  So that started to talk with healthcare authority with the living choice program, the money follows the person program, saying, Hmmm, would you be interested to help fund some of these people to go to the training?  So we have some people here today, we have a personal healthcare authority, we have Mr. Jenkins here.  We have a few more to introduce themselves behind me.  Unfortunately, Norman housing authority didn't get to come, but we have good relations with them.  We have a couple set aside vouchers that we've gotten over the years from, I don't know if I can say it was from complaining or being squeaky or whatever.
>> ANN DENTON:  That's a great strategy. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  It happens.  You talk enough, and I have a boss who as much as I don't like talking in public, he's like, you start going to all these meetings, you know, ten something years ago or 12 years ago, he was like go to all these meetings, tell them what you're looking for, what you need, and what you want, and I was like, okay.  But it helped.  It helped us get those set aside vouchers to help us transition people out of nursing homes, which was good.  Oklahoma City Housing authority at one time had 20 set aside vouchers that was used that were targeted just for people transitioning out of nursing facilities.  Unfortunately, we don't have those anymore.  So we're back to the table again, hoping to figure out a way to keep transitioning those people out.
>> ANN DENTON:  Well, you have evolved.  When we went over the list last night of who was here, I was like really impressed with Oklahoma.  You have done something that we would call a policy academy.  You know what I'm saying?  Which is that lots of federal initiatives use the policy academy model, where they bring people at the state level or community level across systems and make them sit in a room.  I actually heard about a process where people have to do some work, and then they're allowed to sit down.  We won't be doing that, but ...
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Good morning, everyone.  My name is Willis Washington.  I'm also from ‑‑ I'm here representing Progressive Independence out of Norman, Oklahoma.  I'm also on the board of Progressive Independence, and I'm here on behalf of a small advocacy group called Wheels of Change in Oklahoma.  I'm definitely a beginner to the accessible housing programs, and I'm hoping to develop from this training a program that would educate the disabled community and assist with placement, and also, you know, to work with the other agencies here from Oklahoma to see what they're planning to do in the future and see how we can work together to accomplish these goals, and somehow prior to my injury, I did some home repair, remodeling work, so I have a pretty good knowledge of structurally, you know, cost of materials and whatnot, and how those from a budget standpoint should be outsourced. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm Lisa.  I'm the grants planner for the City of Norman.  I'm the person that writes that nasty Consolidated Plan for us.  There was funny looks when that was mentioned, so I know.
The City of Norman is actually an entitlement community.  And we are charged with being the lead agency for the Continuum of Care.  So we all sit down at the table to talk about housing needs, not just as far as accessibility and affordability, but housing as a whole.
Norman is the home of the University of Oklahoma.  And so as with a lot of your communities, you probably have the competition between students who will live anywhere very cheap and the need for affordable, accessible housing.  Currently we're undergoing a series of public discussions, let's just say, regarding increasing the density allowed in the zoning ordinance.  Primarily this was brought about by developers wanting to build bigger and better units that are geared toward students.  From the city's standpoint, in my hallway, it's very frustrating because all of the proposals that we're receiving are geared toward students.  There's really not just public general occupancy types of proposals coming in.
So, you know, on the other hand, I'm served on the board of directors for a small group called working for independent living.  We have an 811 project that has 50 units.  It's a scattered site throughout the community on purpose.  It's four different sites.  The smallest one being four units, the largest one being 24 units.  We were very specific in how we sited those in the community, taking advantage of local conditions near those sites. 
I consider myself probably an intermediate.
>> ANN DENTON:  Please. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Please. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  I'm advanced in wiggling through the HUD regulations.  Deborah and I need to get together and do some business later.  So I'm happy to be here, and thank the Progressive Independence facility so we could all come.
>> ANN DENTON:  That's great.  We're glad you're here.  Oklahoma should be ‑‑ you know, all the people from Oklahoma, it's really kind of almost like a model of how to put together a team within your state or within your community, and you know, you can't ‑‑ it doesn't give you a magic wand either, but it creates relationships.  And then you've got a bunch of committed people who are ready to say when an opportunity presents itself, they're ready to pounce. 
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  That's true.  My name is Pam.  I'm executive director of Thunderbird clubhouse.  We're a community rehabilitation program for adults with mental illness.  So I was anxious to hear some more from Pat too.  It's an international community in that there's clubhouses all over the world.
Oh, no.  It's terrible.  Hoping to get from this class probably a broader view of housing.  We work more closely with PI and the City of Norman and all the agencies in Norman.  And I think we have a really good continuum, a solid continuum.  I think that I don't know enough about mobility challenges and accessibility from that standpoint, psychiatric, you know, accessibility for that group of folks.  I'm very aware of.  So, yeah, I'm just glad to be here.  Thanks.
>> ANN DENTON:  And beginner, intermediate, advanced?
>> AUDIENCE MEMBER:  If it has to do with psychiatric disabilities, I'm pretty solid, but everything else not so solid.
>> ANN DENTON:  Okay.  Now, who did I skip?  Anybody that I skipped?  
All right.  Thank you for your patience while we did that.  I just think for me the thing about adult learning comes through relationships with people, and if you're going to sustain this, which is what we hope you'll do beyond this training, I think that was essential, plus Pat and I are going to mix you up, so it will be good later when we do things like role plays and all that kind of stuff.